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We are officially not allowing any more petition posts. This has gotten tiresome.
This was literally the beginning of the most fun part of the story and they just decided to "wrap things up" in 13 episodes? 5 full seasons could have been made after Dany' arrival to Westeros
HBO was going to give them 14 seasons. GRRM wanted at least 12.
The Sopranos had a 21 episode, two-part 6th season to wrap it up.
Breaking Bad also did 8+8 episodes.
Game of Thrones, a show with ten times the scope was basically wrapped up with 43 lines of dialogue, Cleganebowl and some zombies and dragons.
I'm 100% sure something similar to The People vs. George Lucas will be made about this mess.
the worst part is that everybody wanted Cleganebowl, zombies and dragons. We got some really awesome stuff that was super cool to watch, but the real meat and potatoes of this show (It's creativity, wit, complex interweaving story, and thematic actions and consequences) has been seriously lacking. Without the backbone, it doesn't matter how much amazing shit they put into an episode.
Perfect synopsis. The show used to be cool when you watched it and then got even cooler the more you thought about it. Now it's kinda cool when you watch it but dumber the more you think about it.
Brilliant way to put it.
I used to be impacted for days after watching GOT! Yes! I miss that.
At least Barry is good
Edit: any barry quotes get my upvotes. Does Chechen 50/50 dance
Never getting over that little stunt girl MANIAC in episode 5.
WHAT ARE YOUUUUU??????
HEY IKE YOU SHIT BIRD, YOU WANNA LITTLE PIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
“Well well well, if it isn’t khazam the musical traitor”
Barry is the shit, Alec Berg is curing my Sunday GoT blue balls.
Seriously without Barry this terrible season of GOT would have been so much worse for me. It and that great veep season saved my sanity.
God damn is it ever. What a fantastic show. I look forward to it far more than GoT.
A media critic I really like already tweeted that she thinks she’ll do a video essay as a post mortem to this season already. We’re gonna see some blowback in the coming months for sure.
Lindsay Ellis? I see you're a man of culture as well.
Source? I know they wanted a 10 episode s8....
Jesus christ, fuck these guys.... we could have had one entire full season EASILY of the dead fucking shit up.
So........a lot of things have made me sad about the abomination that is Season 8.
But you should know NOTHING has made me more sad than reading this comment and realizing how absolutely right you are.
How fucking cool would it have been to follow our heroes through like a year of the long night??
yeah, instead we get the shortest battle in real time of the entire 10 years (like 5-6 hours? of westeros time to defeat them... .so ridiculous)
Imagine actually doing something with Bran that's not confirming Jon's heritage or talking about chairs. They could've dedicated a couple episodes on his powers or visions.
I keep wondering why he wandered for years, why we had to watch him being dragged or carried hither and yon, why we had to lose Hodor and Meera had to lose Jojen, if it was all for one night in one battle, of sitting out in the garden being bait.
The fan boi explanation is the Night King would have stayed behind the lines and wrecked Westeros w/o TER Bran. The truth is that D&D completely failed to develop this idea then turned in a shitty last minute conclusion.
Why... Did they wrap this shit up? Isn't this a cash cow? Are they looking to fire all the expensive actors and rehire with a new cheaper crew and slightly altered story with more design around ad space?
Or just keep doing the same shit and print money wtf?
D&D are moving on to Star Wars. They’ve rushed GoT to pick up other projects.
I mean it's not hard to find more competent writers, how's that an issue? Does the HBO board think they're that great?
Contracts...Dumb and Dumber pretty much had the rights to the story. HBO should have really put a way for them to cut ties with D&D if they refused to write a set number of episodes, none of this 73 episode BS.
Yeah, HBO could have done what HBO does and take a stake in the rights. And when D&D decided to jump ship they could have refused and brought in their own writers. Or rehired previous ones.
I'm suprise HBO didn't threaten to just pull the plug on the show. Yeah, we all would be pussed, but if they released a presser stating that the show is on hiatus due to D&D refusing to turn over control. A lot of people would have came around and supported them for it.
D&D made a contract with Martin, then approached HBO.
They also had to shoot the pilot twice as they fucked it up so bad that test audiences didn't ever understand Jaime and Cersei were siblings.
This. They expedited the final season by condensing it, at the viewer's cost. George has said in interviews they could have gone for twice as many seasons.
This is my theory too. The timeliness of the announcement that they are in fact next made me go "mother fuckers quit on us."
You don't need money when your dad is the chairman of Goldman Sachs (Benniof's father). You are doing it as a hobby. When you get bored of it, it's time to wrap up the show and go play with new toys.
I was wondering how these guys got their roles. If you look at their IMDB pages, they are absolutely empty. I think the only notable thing they have between them is the screenplay for Troy (not bad) and an episode of its always sunny...
D&D were sick and tired of it, probably realized they couldn't do jackshit without source material, but too proud cunts to pass the torch to some folk with passion for the project.
Jesus, can I get a source on that? If that's true they reaaaally dropped the fucking ball
It was in a Forbes article yesterday. Im looking for the link. Found it:
And then there’s George RR Martin, who has always thought the show was cutting too much from the books. A long time ago he said the 10 episode seasons should be more like 13, and more recently he’s said that the show could continue well, well beyond eight seasons. Here’s him at the Emmys last year: “I don't know," Martin said. "Ask David [Benioff] and Dan [Weiss] when they come through. We could have gone to 11, 12, 13 seasons, but I guess they wanted a life.”
I just don't get that whole thing with D&D wanting to move on to other things (like one of many Star Wars additions...), or "have a life".
Game of Thrones will inarguably be their greatest work, no matter what, by far. It's obviously one of the top 5 best, most popular shows ever. Moving on to Star Wars is by no means a step up for them... What are they thinking?
I hate how much I hate David and Dan after all of this. Seriously it’s affecting my quality of life, I need some blood pressure meds. Fuck those guys so much.
EDIT: Consider the word hyperbole before you call me crazy and suggest therapy.
It’s sad because they really did single-handedly ruin a cultural phenomenon and the greatest show in television history. They refused to finish the show out with the proper number of episodes, and refused to turn it over to other show runners. It’s directly their fault. The hate is well-earned.
D&D literally got bored and just wanted to finish it so you can thank them
I just don't get that whole thing with D&D wanting to move on to other things (like one of many Star Wars additions...), or "have a life" as GRRM put it.
Game of Thrones will inarguably be their greatest work, no matter what, by far. It's obviously one of the top 5 best, most popular shows ever. Moving on to Star Wars is by no means a step up for them... What are they thinking? Is this NOT what they would want to be working on? The biggest project of art they could be working on - do they not enjoy it...?
This is a great comment. I, too, believe that Star Wars is a lateral move. Game of Thrones is an excellent property with rich lore. Even without the road map provided by GRRM, they had a story with a plethora of possibilities at their fingertips. How could writing the next Star Wars trilogy provide any more creative opportunities than GoT?
Was it just the money? I'm sure they could have named their price with HBO. Surely it couldn't be the characters and story! The GoT characters are arguably more interesting and dynamic than most if not all of the characters in Star Wars.
Star Wars is strictly a good v. evil story. No inbetween. The palette of nuanced grays GoT offers would be far more attractive, in my opinion, to story tellers and creatives. The supple dialogue between Varys and Baelish alone is worth the opportunity costs of declining Star Wars.
With the past few seasons, especially these past few episodes, it's pretty clear they aren't that great at writing nuanced gray morality. The last episode is a very clear Dany bad and Jon good dichotomy. Star Wars will be much easier for them to write, since character motivations are typically more straight forward.
Yeah, you can’t write the tragic love story between Jon and Dany in 6 episodes, you can’t.
Yeah how much time in total do we have of them meeting->being “in love”? It’s seems like they fell in love after like four days, spent a week or two in the honeymoon phase, and now Jon is bailing lol
They're a couple literally because he's a man and she's a woman. They didn't even bother to develop their relationship to make it at least a little bit believable.
My personal favorite is that being dumped by his boyfriend of two months caused Dany to flip, and not losing her husband, only child and brother in the first few seasons.
They wanted to finish up a nagging little project so they could go shit all over Star Wars.
Rewatching the series I'm going to either stop watching there or after s8e2. Will the NK march south and surprise Cersei? Is winterfell going to be overwhelmed and everyone's forced to flee? Is Bran relevant? Will Stannis come down from the heavens in a beam of sunlight and take what is rightfully his? All up to my imagination.
Someone needs to re-edit episode 3 so that everyone dies and the Night King wins. It shouldn't be that hard since it looked like everyone actually did die about 10 times each during the battle.
That's really easy, it looked like everybody was about to die in the final Night King scene/montage, so you can just cut to black before Arya jumps out to kill NK. NK and Bran stare at each other, NK reaches for his sword to kill him, and then BOOM hard cut to black with the music also abruptly ending. Basically The Sopranos ending again.
Maybe without Don’t Stop Believing though
Or with extra Don't Stop Believing
I’ll take The Sopranos ending now more then what we are about to get.
Ya know I recently finished rewatching Sopranos and I’m ok with the ending. I took it as the bell ringing was Tony’s time to go. He looked up someone came in shot him dead while having his family dinner. I’m ok with that.
I could've lived with S7 being the low-point of the show if it meant that S8 was at least on the same level as S6.
They were offered 2 full seasons by HBO.
DnD didn't give a shit and opted for less, probs cause they just wanted to be done with this and get to Star Wars.
I’m wondering how their Star Wars trilogy will be perceived now. At first I was excited when I heard they were getting a trilogy, especially with rumors of it being Old Republic, but now I really hope they don’t fuck it up. If they turn around and make some awesome Star Wars flicks it’ll help the wound they’ve given to me from Game of Thrones
A man can dream.
GOD THE SEASON WAS STRONG BACK THEN
I think Bobby B is a pretty cool king. He save the Westeros from itself and doesn't afraid of anything.
OHHH, SHOW US YOUR MUSCLES! YOU'LL BE A SOLDIER!
Thank you, Bobby B. Only you can save us now!
I'VE GOT SEVEN KINGDOMS TO RULE! ONE KING, SEVEN KINGDOMS!
Don't worry Bobby B, we will always support you
YOU HEARD THE HAND, THE KING'S TOO FAT FOR HIS ARMOR! GO FIND THE BREASTPLATE STRETCHER! NOW!
I have the breastplate stretcher, Bobby B! What are your orders?
You never know!!
jesus, the last time i checked it was at 20k, now at 53 and you can see the number climb
if internet historian has taught me one thing, its that petitions lead nowhere
I’d like a petition to give petitions more power
You’ll need a petition for that.
The "Save The Expanse" petition did its job tho... So there is hope (slim as it might be)
those were some motivated mother fuckers.
let's assume that the ratings numbers are accurate (~17 million tuned in for the long night): it would take an order of magnitude more signatures before it would gain any real traction. something like millions, idk probably 3-5ish at minimum. then consider the logistics of having to schedule out another ~6 months or so of shooting at various locations which would require booking, budgeting for everything from sets to wardrobe to equipment and crews, not to mention the time it would take the screenwriters to create and edit drafts and then eventually all that work goes into post for another couple months.
i think the best we could realistically hope for is that someone with a connection at hbo who would be able to perhaps get together small groups of the cast when they have time between other gigs to create fleshed out 'season 8 episode 2.5' type shorts, with an intention of filling in the gaps. even that would cost a lot and require massive effort, assuming the cast has the ability or is even willing to do so.
our only real hope is for george to finish the books. that's a huge ask.
Your "best we could realistically hope for" is still so fanciful, that if it were to happen it could only be explained by magic.
Its never made any damn sense why she didnt immediately take kings landing. The whole thousands of innocents will die always made zero sense. The dragon was surgical if she used it that way. Kings landing we saw that. She only took out what needed to be took out initially. She could have done exactly the same thing that led to the surrender seasons ago.
Tyrion was problem in the show but in reality its just shitty writing to get her to the point of insanity we saw.
Edit. This has been bzzt bzzt bzzt for like 3 hours now. Jesus.
Seriously. The scorpions weren't even made at this stage (Varys could have found out that they had no dragon defenses through his spy network), she could have just flown in and done her thing. Surgical strike.
Varys could have had the buildings she should destroy painted with a target on the roof lmao. Guard barracks are here, Commander of the city guard sleeps here, etc.
Damn that's some old testament shit. Wonder what Bobby B would think
MY, YOU'RE A PRETTY ONE! AND YOUR NAME IS?
Jacob, Your Grace.
His majesty Bobby b knows this one now.
THERE'S A WAR COMING, NED. I DON'T KNOW WHEN, I DON'T KNOW WHO WE'LL BE FIGHTING...BUT IT'S COMING!
He would have shat himself
TYRION KNEW OF A SECRET PASSAGE THIS WHOLE TIME GODDAMNIT.
this show became so stupid in 5 episodes it's insane. Season 7 was weak but it was never a shitshow like this.
EDIT: AND NOW THAT I THINK ABOUT IT, FUCKING ARYA, IN SEASON 1, SHE WAS IN THAT FUCKING DRAGON SKULL ROOM, AND SHE CAME OUT OF IT, YET WHEN SHE BECOMES METAL GEAR FACELESS SHE GOES STRAIGHT TO THE MAIN GATE, JESUS FUCKING CHRIST
EDIT2: AND BEHOLD THE SPIDER HIMSELF, THE ONE WHO DID EVERYTHING FOR THE REALM, LORD OF ORPHANS VARYS IS THE ONE THAT WAS HAPPILY CONSPIRING IN THAT ROOM, BUT NO FUCK ME IF TALKS ABOUT IT, DAMN YOU D&D
Arya used that secret passage twice lol. Once when she discovers it after hearing Varys and Illyrio scheming, and again to get outside the Keep when the Lannisters started slaughtering the Stark bannerman.
please make it stop it hurts
Dude HALF OF THE CHARACTERS LIVED IN KINGS LANDING FOR SEVERAL YEARS. Why the fuck is Arya just aimlessly running around!? SHE'S MRS. FUCKING I HAVE A PLAN. WHO EVEN WAS THAT CHARACTER ugh I'm still so upset I'm sorry
Why must you torture me with non-shit ideas about how it could have went down?
In the books, scorpion bolts aren't effective against dragons unless they hit a weak spot due to the thick scales which provide armor, as far as we know Danny's could grow to the size of the largest dragon Balerion, he was able to melt the largest castle in Westeros, if logic followed there wouldn't be a single army that wouldn't surrender to her, no one has forgotten about the first Targaryen conquest and the characters talk about it constantly, I understand that the writers were in a difficult spot with the dragons having no real challenge but that's how they've been written, D&D don't want to follow the obvious conclusion but its obvious because that's what the narrative has been leading to.
Dragons having no real challenge
They did that to themselves. They had an undead dragon and a "villain" who was supposed to have an evil black magic dragon horn.
They squandered both.
its obvious because that's what the narrative has been leading to.
creating drama and tension just for the sake of having drama and tension has been their entire writing ethos for all of season 8 (and lots of season 7 I suppose)
They just wanted to subvert expectations guys, thats all
This just made me mad about something else: Balerion melted Haarenhal. Not blew up, melted. Meaning dragonfire is excessively hot but not necessarily explosive. Yet Drogon fucking erupted everything his fire touched in Ep5.
Just another logical consistency thrown out the window because they wanted to have an Apocalypse Now-esque visual. What the fuck.
Pffft melting castles is such a book thing to do. The show upgraded us to a dragon who can make everything explode, and cut through stone with precision laser fire.
I for one love how the dragons are buffed and nerfed between episodes.
To be fair the one notable instance that scorpion bolts were used against dragons was the Dornish fleet against Vhagar, Vermithor, and Caraxes. All three of which were much much older and larger than Drogon and the Bolts the Dornish used all glanced off their scales, which makes sense as the older dragons get, the thicker their scales are. Rhaegal was practically an infant compared to those three dragons.
I didn't consider the hardening, it would make sense since later smaller dragons were killed by mobs of peasants in the dragon pits, I think we'll have to wait for twow and ados to find out
I think Rhaegal dieing to the bolts made sense. But getting hit with three in a row in a span of 5 seconds the appeared out of thin air was so unbelievable its laughable.
I don't disagree that the dragons needed some sort of weakness, my issue comes in two parts. Firstly I can't see a way for the Targaryens to have conquered 6 of the 7 kingdoms if an easily mass producible weapon renders them useless. Secondly, once the purpose of the scorpion bolts was served Dany blew them all up with dragon fire, they introduced a dragon killing weapon that was meant to be the Achilles heel of the whole invasion, as well as the golden company, who would negate her infantry after they were significantly weakened by the long night, D&D then decided to ignore these, suddenly Dany can avoid every bolt and burn every ship, and then destroy the gates of kings landing and kill the golden company with 1 dragon.
She'd already done a surgical strike on all the walls. She didn't need to raze the city.
Really though the issue is they rushed too much into this episode and didn't give time for her insanity to properly enter the plot. If they'd done that it would've been pretty damn neat, the irony that the wildfire ready to burn KL should it fall out of targaryen hands, and that Jaime's efforts were all in vane.
If she can destroy all that with 1 dragon, why did she even wait like a month+ on Dragonstone?
Cersei story over - proceed to NK story. Dany loses Viseryion helping Jon, and then Rhaegal during the battle against NK, and along the way she loses Ser Jorah and Missandei. Causing her to go deeper into madness and grief.
Yes imagine if Dany takes the throne by season 7 and descends into madness by season 8. Would've made so much more sense
She started Season 7 with such a clear and obvious path to victory that they really had to twist things around to make her fail
Literally lowered the IQ of Tyrion to handicap her in the stupidest way like the "kidnap a wight bullshit". Like literally any way to take Kings Landing she could've done. Completely unbelievable and forced
It's kind of funny looking back in retrospect at them kidnapping a wight. It's just so over the top compared to absolutely anything else in the story.
not to mention how easily all her allies got destroyed
Yep. Teleporting Euron, Euron OP scorpion accuracy, suiciding Dothraki, worst winterfell battle plan of all time, whole beyond the wall episode etc.
A few of those are fine but it became totally forced that they were pushing it here.
I am still mad about Highgarden; "The largest army in all westoros" destroyed in a bullshit way offscreen
"I have an idea! Let's try reasoning with Cersei! I know it blew up in our faces the first 17 times we tried it, but this time we are going to approach it differently. This time we will be completely defenseless!
The first handicap was having Dany leave Dario in Essos. Dario could have easily gone up the secret cave entrance that Tyrion knew about and assassinated Cersei in her sleep. Or you know, send the whole unsullied through that entrance, single file, while the rest of the army attacks from the outside.
Ya or Arya with the power of the faceless men who could've done it no fuckin problem
It would have been awesome to have Dany as Queen for a full season instead of 1/2 an episode at most.
Ships surround the Blackwater Bay, troops surround the city by land, three massive dragons fly over Kings Landing for everyone to see, maybe burn a ring around the city walls for good measure...
Could have been so easy for her!
and fuck, seeing 3 dragons sack kings landing would have been brilliant.
Burn the walls, take the throne. Then panic when you dont have walls when the night king shows up.
Yup always felt super constructed. As if your only options are gently making them surrender or nuclear holocaust.
How bout, you know, lay siege like it's a normal war and just spare the civilians when the city falls?
It does make sense:
When Dany came to KL she thought she is being awaited and will be applauded by the commoners. But over time she witnesses that she is not welcome. Nobody actually cares, actually more people want Jon to be the king.
I think what show is trying to show here is human mind is complicated. And that complicated mind REQUIRES A FUCKING GOOD SCRIPT, ONLY IF WE HAD GOOD PERSISTENT MOTHERFUCKING WRITERS.
Exactly. Tyrion knew the secret passageways too. Dany and her dragons fly in and neutralize all the military targets while the army slips in under the city and storms the red keep. The end.
Bronn said it. All it takes is a couple of cunts to ruin your house.. and to ruin a show
Them not accepting HBO’s offer of 10+ seasons is criminal. It proves D&D just wanted to get to Starwars.
Also the only reason they got the game of thrones gig in the first place is because their dads where wealthy bankers. They were practically unknowns before GOT besides that terrible X-men movie.
Definitely protesting the movies just to spite them.
This is where the show ended for me.
I think this is where the show ended for a lot of people after seeing S8.
It's really unfortunate that D&D refused the full seasons that were offered to them by HBO, they brought this upon themselves.
It will probably not lead to much, but who knows shrugs
It won’t lead to jack shit cause unless GRRM gets his shit together no one will be able to do much better.
What sucks is that because of the way D&D handled it all the contracts are up. To get everyone back on board is going to be tough.
I hope D&D will have their names stained for a long time. What they did to this show was a travesty, they had everything handed to them and they still took a shitty route. No one to blame but them, outside of GRMM of course.
Well one of the D's was responsible for X-Men Origins: Wolverine.
So.... Yeah, his name is already stained.
Only if it was a month ago back, when we were Young dumb and full of Hope.
Can we just get an animated adaption after the books are done so they don't have to cut everything?
That's what I'm waiting for now, an animated series or a comic. Hopefully nobody will patent troll the rights.
HBO and GRRM wanted more episodes/seasons. D&D refused and even wanted to make only seven seasons - I guess it has something to do with the fact they got the rights for Star Wars. They lost interest in GoT and it shows.
We can still pretend that this is where the show has ended it's run. For me this is one ot the best ending to a season of any show ever, and one of the best setup for the future season as well
If the writers didn't all of a sudden become idiots we could've witnessed one of the most insane finales in TV history.
Literally expand on the NK a little more. Don't make Tyrion and every character an idiot with the "kidnap a wight bullshit". Have the descent to madness and every other character arc clearer with more episodes. Pretty obvious stuff was rushed.
Yes! It was SO good.
You know what would be the best finish for D&D's character arc? To have Mr. Mouse pull the plug on them and have them fade into obscurity.
This will never happen. Personally, I'd rather just wait for the books to finish and then have a proper adaption of ASOIAF. It sucks that such a great show is ending in such a shitty way, but it is what it is.
Hes 70. Dance with dragons came out 8 years ago, crows came out 6 before that. If he released the next book tomorrow there would still be a non trivial chance he dies long before it is all finished.
I literally want everyone to die in finale episode.
I don't understand why they had to wrap it up so quickly. Everything was being prepared for two big wars, 7 season just to end it in 3 episodes.
How can it be a budget issue, isn't GoT like most watched show with shit-ton of money..