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That Americans no longer trust their institutions or elites should not be a source of wonderment ― it should be seen as a rational response to the declining trustworthiness of the people with the most power in this country. If “with great power comes great responsibility,” then why is our criminal justice system so focused on jailing poor people for being unable to pay fines for modest offenses or nonviolent drug possession?
Spot on. There's the legal system if you're rich, and the justice system if you're not rich.
We are long overdue to start taking white collar crime much more seriously.
Because under GWB, the agencies responsible for prosecuting white collar crime were defunded.
Much of the resources that had gone to white collar crime were redirected to terrorism.
And, frankly, white collar crime is much more dangerous to the stability of our country. I can appreciate some legitimate concern and precautions put in place after 9/11. But citizens of this country and more likely to slip and fall in their bathtubs and break their necks than to be directly impacted by anything terror-related. And we certainly haven't changed any of our jingoistic foreign policy that is responsible for a good deal of the terrorist recruitment and action around the globe - especially in the Middle East.
Didn’t we have to issue a huge scale bailout to stop the country from spiraling out of control as a result of white collar crime?
Yeah, massive bailout. If you are too big to fail as a company, you need to be state owned because your need for profit is outweighed at least tenfold by the need for stability.
In our current economic system, I feel it would be more prudent to encourage competition to ensure no company is too big to fail. Our systems should fervently ensure monopolies and duopolies do not and can not exist. Capitalism works with competition and regulation, it consumes itself and the overwhelming majority of people that make up its engine of prosperity, otherwise.
We need to dust off the ol' anti-trust laws and stop rubberstamping every damn merger.
Not to mention the fact that many industries are effectively cartels ensuring no direct competition.
Then these businesses can compete with the publicly owned services in order to reign in the market manipulation that is so commonly a means for profit for large entities that use tgeir size abd ubiquity to isolate themselves from the market forces that snaller businesses must deal with.
Remember: markets arent fair competitive environments. Adam Smith pointed this out, and its a shame Americans conveniently ignore his sociological observations.
Too few among us even know Adam Smith created the system we call Capitalism.
Think about it this way;
Most people tend to think of 9/11 as a military/terrorist attack, but that's not really correct at all.
From 9/11 until now , we spent 6-7 TRILLION Dollars, the US political class would be fast to point out that expenditure on defense and terrorist activities, including the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan. We have killed or incarcerated or decimated any observed threat over the intervening ~20 years.
As lies go, it's almost believable except, Osama Bin Ladin himself pointed out that the rationale for the attacks was to induce the United States and Western powers generally) in the hopes that they would economically expend vital resources in the exact same way as did the Soviet Union. The invasion of Iraq seems to have brought nothing but misery to the Iraqi people, and an entire Levant free of potential economic/military threats to our friends in Tel Aviv. That they also induced the political class to eviscerate constitutional legal protections is gravy.
Of course that's exactly what we did. Osama's victory by accomplishing his main objective was to economically damage the United States,and so for the cost of about a million dollars, and the death of their martyred henchmen, they have induced the United States political apparatus to spend ruinous amounts of money, currently upwards of 7-10 Trillion dollars almost all of it - on debt to future generations.
On account of the situation with Enron and again with the mortgage and financing catastrophe, the United States (alone) lost 14 TRILLION in 2007 in generational wealth, in 6 weeks on account of the failure of AIG and various other firms in the immediate aftermath of the collapse of the mortgage train-wreck and various "quantitative easing".
Not a single person in charge has gone to jail, on account of their crimes.
This might be something the House of Representatives needs to add to their agenda.
BTW, It's interesting that trolls appear to change the subject out of nowhere.
why aren't we doing anything about bathtubs!?
I’d like to see you try to take my bathtubs 😤😤
Those damn libs just want to take your bathtubs away!
Shower stall elitists!
Take their bathtubs first, and go through due process later!
Hey everybody. Look at this rich fuck that has more than one bathtub!
The only thing stopping a bad guy with a bathtub is a good guy with a bathtub.
Second hand summary;
This documentary argues that during the 20th Century politicians lost the power to inspire the masses, and that the optimistic visions and ideologies they had offered were perceived to have failed. The film asserts that politicians consequently sought a new role that would restore their power and authority. Curtis, who also narrates the series, declares in the film's introduction that Instead of delivering dreams, politicians now promise to protect us: from nightmares. To illustrate this Curtis compares the rise of the American neoconservatives and radical Islamists, believing that both are closely connected; that some popular beliefs about these groups are inaccurate; and that both movements have benefited from exaggerating the scale of the terrorist threat.
Not directly related but I have thought the same about science fiction and our ideas of the future. Instead of flying cars and stuff we see dystopias in our future.
Not coincidentally, our visions of the future started getting dark right after Watergate. I wish more Americans understood that what we're going through right now and most of the political bullshit of the last four decades is a direct result of pardoning that criminal.
People get so riled up about issues like terrorism, meanwhile deeply rooted problems in our system continue to fester if only for the fact that they're boring when read from a teleprompter. Most people don't care about hearing of white collar crimes. A lot of us don't feel fear when we hear of these things too, whereas hearing about terrorism delivers a very guttural fear in which so many people endulge by watching news television.
As the other commenter said; although it does happen and there are victims, the statistical likelihood of falling victim to things like terrorism are so miniscule. These kinds of policies are obviously driven by emotion, and the sad truth is that people consider these real crimes that actually affect them indirectly as boring.
If a Bernie Madof bankrupts pension or retirement funds that has real world consequences for the pensioners and retirees. Less money means less healthcare means shorter life spans. How many “years lost” does it take to equal a murder charge?
Obviously this is only a thought experiment, but I believe it’s a telling one.
Also, in my opinion white collar fraud is worse that blue collar theft. Many blue collar crimes are undertaken as last ditch acts of desperation (or perceived desperation). White collar fraud is an act of greed undertaken without duress of any kind.
Is the man who steals because he sees no other option less blameworthy that the man who steals to become richer than he already is? I think so. I thinks crimes of greed and choice should be punished much more harshly. It’s the difference between a drug user / low level dealer and a international drug kingpin.
How many “years lost” does it take to equal a murder charge?
Terry Pratchett (GNU) made that argument in Going Postal.
Context: The protagonist, Moist von Lipwig, is a con-man, forger and fraudster who gets pressed into government service (think along the lines of Neal Caffrey if you watched the show White Collar) to resurrect the defunct Post Office. His Probation Officer (a Golem) was just about ready to bash in a side character's head in case he had one of his Little Moments to which Moist objects.
“Do you understand what I'm saying?" shouted Moist. "You can't just go around killing people!"
"Why Not? You Do." The golem lowered his arm.
"What?" snapped Moist. "I do not! Who told you that?"
"I Worked It Out. You Have Killed Two Point Three Three Eight People," said the golem calmly.
"I have never laid a finger on anyone in my life, Mr Pump. I may be–– all the things you know I am, but I am not a killer! I have never so much as drawn a sword!"
"No, You Have Not. But You Have Stolen, Embezzled, Defrauded And Swindled Without Discrimination, Mr Lipvig. You Have Ruined Businesses And Destroyed Jobs. When Banks Fail, It Is Seldom Bankers Who Starve. Your Actions Have Taken Money From Those Who Had Little Enough To Begin With. In A Myriad Small Ways You Have Hastened The Deaths Of Many. You Do Not Know Them. You Did Not See Them Bleed. But You Snatched Bread From Their Mouths And Tore Clothes From Their Backs. For Sport, Mr Lipvig. For Sport. For The Joy Of The Game.”
And a bonus quote from the same book:
“What kind of man would put a known criminal in charge of a major branch of government? Apart from, say, the average voter.”
God damn Terry Pratchett was a genius. I love all his books and I'm going to re read them again because I need that comfort.
And then after there "White collar criminals" steal from the working class criminal... or banks essentially do this, they are charged a fine much less then they embezzled in the first place. They are never jailed. It's funny corporations are people, until it comes to taking responsibility for the crimes they commit. 🙄
“I’ll believe corporations are people when Texas executes one.” -Robert Reich
I think the EPA once did a study and estimate an average person net worth for his entire life is about 6 million.
So a white collar crime that caused loss or stolen exceeding 6 million should be a murder count.
Italy doesn't prosecute if someone is stealing food because they are genuinely broke and hungry.
Jesus Christ! would approve.
Similar to not getting further charges for trying to escape from prison in Germany. Or when Portugal started to decriminalise drug abuse.
Get these people help, don't punish them further.
I'm fed up with inequality. These elites need to act like they give a fuck about guarding the chicken coup. They squeeze and squeeze. Why do we let them have any power? What's the utility of an upper class if they can't even maintain our national sovereignty? They better take that Russian whore out of office. What's the fucking point of having an aristocracy if they can't even keep America american?
To fill their coffers and they’ll do it until we’re all either dead, in the poor house, or until the bow breaks and everyone reminds the rich that taxes and regulations were the compromise to them getting Romanov’d. Electoralism won’t fix shit in that aspect unless we get a fiercely unabashed leftist who starts seizing their hoards of property and money.
why do we let them
Because the majority are busy being convinced that the "other party" is the source of their problems.
Dont know why they dont go after them more often. They have the money. Do the civil forfeiture shit that is done to the normal people.
Much harder to get that money fighting against a team of top attorneys. You end up going after one guy for years who might still totally get away, versus just nailing a dozen small fries who can't fight you much on it.
After Enron they lobbied the shit out of the DOJ/WH.
Not too long ago we did when a hard ass prosecutor by the name of Robert Mueller threw a bunch of Enron execs in prison and made Arthur Anderson close down. That scared the shit out of the business elites who then lobbied and bribed the top DOJ political appointees in the W Bush administration to start accepting fines in lieu of criminal prosecutions of white collar crime.
It’s funny that the CFO of Enron’s accounting company—the aforementioned Arthur Anderson—is now CEO of Duke Energy.
The entire company is run by effectively the un-indicted co-conspirators from the ruins of Enron.
Less funny "ha ha" and more funny "oh God that's depressing"
I live in a duke energy monopoly and they're actively avoiding me and not doing their job because I got solar.
...to start accepting fines in lieu of criminal prosecutions of white collar crime.
And even then, the fines are often far less than the potential profit from said crime. The consequences (be it fines, prison, or preferably both for serious crimes) need to be actually punishing.
But what about the drugs pouring across the boarder hoax?
The war on drugs continues because it is a perpetual money maker.
Jails, DEA, Police, Courts, Governments, etc. all make a huge profit off drug/asset seizures, fines, jailing people, etc.
It's not about ending drug use, getting people clean or improving society, its about that sweet sweet cash that never stops.
The only way Cannabis has been made legal is with the compromise of 20-25% taxes to replace the revenue the powers that be were collecting when it was illegal.
Bingo. The War on Drugs is a massive racket; A money maker for the people at the top, and a meat grinder for those at the bottom.
In the US it also props up the DEA, CIA, and local police forces, who, legally speaking, have a monopoly on violence. No-knock raids against suspected drug houses have become the norm, not the exception.
Drug arrests are easy. They are just about the easiest way to put a non violent person in jail. In most states posession of heroin or pills is a felony, which makes it easier to disenfranchise a whole generation of people struggling with the opiate crisis.
Violence and money is power and the drug war creates a whole lot of both, all for the benefit of the people at the top of the power structure. The Drug War creates it’s own people at the bottom as well (drug addiction) who can then be sent to prison and used essentially as slave labor for profit.
Oh, and if you are addicted to drugs, good luck going to rehab, it takes months to truly get clean, and even the most “affordable” places will do a 5 day detox (not nearly enough time) for around 10k. Drug addicts don’t have 10k.
If you wonder how the hell the drug war has continued this long, it’s because it makes a lot of people very wealthy. Private prisons, the militarization of police, rehab clinics, the opiate crisis, all of these are connected to the war on drugs.
Not only that but they’ve shown that making drugs illegal only increases profits. Reducing only the supply but not the demand just makes drugs more expensive. Only about 10% of Columbian farmers were growing coca leaves before the war on drugs, years later, at one point it was 100% of them, because we made it insanely profitable to grow coca leaves.
The war on drugs is the only “war” that seems entirely disinterested in achieving it’s stated objectives.
It is a massive failure by every metric.
It's also about the class structure we seek to maintain. We want our black people at the bottom. The drugs war lets us keep black men working in prison for pennies on the hour. America sure loves slavery.
The war on drugs continues because it is a perpetual money maker.
Even when financial motivations are considered, you have to account for their lack of willingness to legalize and tax it. I'll go out on a limb and say that would generate far more revenue, at much lower expense.
It's true, however the profits would shift and jobs would disappear.
We wouldn't need 10,000 DEA agents or 20,000 border patrol agents anymore, we wouldn't have full jails and we likely wouldn't have anywhere near as many police, of which there are hundreds of thousands across about 18,000 federal, state, county, and local agencies.
The money would go to local governments and towards things that benefit the citizens instead of the wealthy, which is exactly what the wealthy strive to prevent.
I agree it is about jobs and profit I just disagree about the industry. Big pharma and alcohol/tobacco have a vested interest in preventing the legalization of drugs.
In Washington it’s clsoer to 45% sales tax.
When you collude with Putin it's a red collar crime.
This. We can't just accept him resigning. This stuff warrants more than a slap on a wrist. A fine or a short prison sentence at some resort club jail won't be enough. There needs to be real punishment here, and it needs to be on everyone involved in this treason against our country.
Agreed. I’d love to get a perp-walk vid of 45 in handcuffs. Realistically, unless the hard evidence is overwhelming, resignation seems more likely.
Then again, it’s hard to tell with him. He may go full Drumpf, and try and fight it out all the way to the Supreme Court. It won’t be boring, either way.
Resignation = indictment. Losing the 2020 election = indictment. His only hope to escape Mueller is being pardoned or gaining a second term. Even then, there's still the sealed indictments and state crimes.
'This stuff' - understatement of the decade.
Ukrainian here. Listen carefully. Spicy story about traitor.
Our traitor Yanukovich fleed to Moscow and sits near his puppet master. Our army guys tried to stop that son of a bitch, trying to run on his plane. Army blocked the sky, and didnt allow president to escape, then he moved to Crimea, where russian special forces saved his arse from justice.
After his escape , traitor tried to lead Russian forces into ukraine, asked for help, but our parlament impeached him right in time and made him not legitimate.
Most interesting part, when traitor ran, we got a new president Poroshenko, he started cleaning everything from russian spies. Huge russian web of traitors and spies everywhere. And u know what, in our special forces were shitload of russian agents. Damn, they getting arrested everyday. We have a war of special forces inside of the country, with shootouts, loud arests and even terracts.
Morale of the story... why the hell are u sleeping there? Check yo cia, fbi for russian spies, clean the shit and deal with traitors. It looks from the side like moronity won in America, when u want build the wall with mexicans while being attacked by Russia.
Not Ukrainian but I did watch what happened very closely. I remember the house that Yanukovic owned was this massive estate, beautifully tacky. He lied to his people while living a lavish lifestyle at the expense of their suffering. A “fun” fact about the house is that it was the former summer vacation home of Soviet leaders. Like how fucking dumb are you? Go to another house!
Actually Americans have the Ukrainians to thank for exposing Paul Manifort in the raid on Yanukovic's estate. Hats off!
Holy crap was this the house with the “vault” of receipts and debts? Or am I confusing those locations?
I may be a bit off but it seems Montenegro has similar story. Russia attempting to plant its operatives /friendly paid politicians to bring back the band. It just seems obvious what putins endgame is but our president talks like he is our ally and drops odd comments about Balkan states. I wish I munsterstood the area and its complexity more. Seems like the will of the majority is being subverted.
I'm pretty sure that's it. There was an attempt to throw all the documents in the lake and the Ukrainian people give into the lake and recovered the documents that opened the investigation into Manafort. It's straight up heroism.
The ledgers with Manafort's deets?
And here we congratulate our rich for living lavishly at the expense of the working class’s suffering.
Go to another house!
That's why Trump has mar a lago.
There are a ton of Americans I strongly suspect of working directly for Russia. Not a jokey "oh he must be a Russian plant" but literally taking Russian money to advance Russia's interests.
Like Sheriff David Clarke. The entire NRA.
Mitch McConnell, Paul Ryan....
Lindsey. He turned on a dime. That was very blatant.
Fuck Lindsey Graham. Just.... fuck him.
I've never liked him, but I always felt sort of ambivalent about him, I guess that's the best way to describe it. I never trusted him, always knew he was a Republican boot licker but... I don't know. I didn't have any sort of intense emotion toward him.
Keep in mind I didn't pay just a whole lot of attention to him before, but it seemed like just before or just after McCain died, whatever smidgen of moral compass Lindsey had died with him. But that's not really what brought out this intense emotion I have toward him.
It was his screaming, screeching harpy speech during the Kavenaugh hearing that did it.
I don't want to get into details because it's just not fun to relive them, but I've been raped, I endured molestation as a child, I have been sexually assaulted. I have a handful of abusers I could point fingers at. I never did because one was a family member and I was/am too afraid to be the one to bring it to the surface and tear my family apart and the others would be a case of he said/she said because I have no proof and I know myself and know I am not emotionally strong enough to go through it. It sucks and I hate it but it's how it is.
So seeing Lindsey Graham up there in our nation's capital, someone who I might disagree with but respected as an elected leader, a person in power, screeching in all his righteous indignation that people dared to question this man,dared to believe Dr. Ford,dared to want an investigation... It felt... I can't explain really. It felt like a personal attack even though logically I know it wasn't. It felt like he was shaming every person who has ever been abused by someone with a little power and dared to speak about it. It felt almost like he was saying that there was no possible way Kavenaugh could have done what he was accused of because he was white, educated, and came from money and power and how dare anyone implicate it and by God, how dare anyone attempt to stop giving this man arguably one of the most prestigious and highest appointments in the country.
It felt so personal to me, like he was screaming directly at me. Fuck Lindsey Graham.
To top it all off, you know damn well had that been a Democrat they'd still be talking about it. And God forbid it had been a woman or a Democratic woman, they'd have called her a screaming harpy and it might damn well have ended her career.
So it's infuriating to me that he could put on that little bit of theater and see suffer zero consequences for it.
Fuck Lindsey Graham. It would be such a wet dream for me if/when it comes out that he's compromised/a traitor.
Lindsey. McConnell. ryan.
Priebus was heading the RNC before joining the WH and almost assuredly had some shady role in all of this. The RNC is most certainly being utilized by the FSB the way the GOP continues to, across the board, circle the wagons and engage in mental gymnastics to defend Trump. This is going to get real nasty way before we can find a bud to nip.
Sheriff David Clarke
From his Wikipedia:
In 2015, Clarke traveled to Moscow on a $40,000 trip, with all expenses paid by the NRA, Pete Brownell (an NRA board member and CEO of a gun-parts supply company) and "The Right to Bear Arms," a Russian pro-firearms organization, founded by Maria Butina, a Russian national, alleged to be an unregistered foreign agent. During the meeting, Clarke met the Russian foreign minister and attended a conference at which Russian official Aleksander Torshin, a close ally of Vladimir Putin, spoke.
In 2018, Clarke attracted attention for using Twitter to promote a conspiracy theory about the Stoneman Douglas High School shooting in Parkland, Florida; Clarke tweeted that "The well ORGANIZED effort by Florida school students demanding gun control has GEORGE SOROS' FINGERPRINTS all over it", suggesting that the students from Parkland were being manipulated by Soros to organize for gun control.
Never heard of the guy before now, but he seems pretty suspicious to me.
Remember three weeks ago, when a whistle-blower whencame out that Fincen had been compromised, going back to 2016 at least? The federal financial crimes unit was passing information on Clinton and democrats to Russia? No? Too bad this current crisis is taking all the airtime.
Alex Jones I've no doubt
So far the only government official we've apprehended is a general.
You mean the former National Security Adviser, Michael Flynn, and then the former Deputy Finance Chairman of the RNC, Michael Cohen?
That's going to be a huge issue if we make it out of this. So many vacancies to be filled in the US government. After the shutdown is over I'm sure there will be many vacancies to fill there as well.
All of Trump judges need to be purged, basically the GOP knows Trump's crimes and have been aiding and abetting him this whole time.
^ this is so accurate!
I think in our case the CIA and the FBI are mostly uncompromised, and if we manage to get out of this mess, it will be because patriotic Americans in those agencies put their lives and careers on the lines to do something about this systemic rot. No, I think our Russian agents and assets reside within the Halls of Congress operating right out in plain sight for all the world to see. The lack of consequences for those at the top has gone on for so long that they've become complacent and don't even bother to hide their treason.
Unfortunately, it's going to be extraordinarily difficult to actually do anything about this for all of the obvious reasons. The corporate media will make it almost impossible for the corruption of this mass scale to be accepted by our collective consciousness. The fact that the majority of the rot festers within one party will make their defense to any eventual calls to fix it easily painted as partisan bickering.
I don't know if we will make it out of this to the other side. I have hope, and there are people working furiously as we speak, but we will need a hell of a lot of luck too.
I’m not sure if moronity was a typo but it is accurate!
So arrest the GOP? Got it.
This is the sword of damocles dilemma. A metric fuck ton of GOP leadership and Trump's entire family are most likely complicit and should be thrown in jail. You also have 40% of Moron America Fuck Yea USA that will think the 13 angry democrats and the deep state are committing a coup d'etat because they no longer accept facts or reality if it doesn't fit their narrative. We could be in for some turmoil. My hope is that Mueller's evidence is so damning that the 40% drops to <20% and we can rip the band aid.
That's a good point. Some of our neighbors are also ok with this as long as they hurt the other party. It's crazy.
Maybe our next president should run on mental health issues.
I think that this is something that law enforcement/the IC is definitely worried about and why Mueller is taking his time developing the entire story rather than just filing obstruction charges right away. He needs to present evidence so damning and disgusting that the 60% majority of this country who cannot stand Trump will be motivated into voting for politicians who make cracking down on GOP corruption/criminality a central platform, and Trump’s supporters are so ashamed that they crawl back under the fridge for the rest of their miserable lives like the roaches they are.
It’s treason to cover for a traitor. The punishment for treason is death.
We're working on it...
One of my greatest daily (yes, daily) sources of anger for years has been the choice to not prosecute the bankers. End the two tiered justice system.
Not an act of cyber war. Continuing cyber war over a period of two years now which has attacked our elections, our power plants, our infrastructure, our state departments, our political parties...
Our president has actively prevented the country from responding to a cyber attack. How can that not be treason?
And we live in an age of perpetual undeclared war, so a broader interpretation of the statute is needed.
Yes, we must not forget that they planned to keep feeding our enemies the private data of citizens well beyond 2016.
Placing a puppet in the white house seems like more than "aid".
Here's a good read:
“Consider the evidence that Trump is a traitor,” exhorted an essay in Salon. It is, in fact, treasonable to aid the “enemies” of the United States. But enemies are defined very precisely under American treason law. An enemy is a nation or an organization with which the United States is in a declared or open war . Nations with whom we are formally at peace, such as Russia, are not enemies. (Indeed, a treason prosecution naming Russia as an enemy would be tantamount to a declaration of war.) Russia is a strategic adversary whose interests are frequently at odds with those of the United States, but for purposes of treason law it is no different than Canada or France or even the American Red Cross.
If it's true POTUS is a Manchurian Candidate, then I suppose we may need to declare war on Russia. Everything they did 2016 certainly feels like an act of war.
If a foreign govt attempts to take over a country, that's an act of war. Be it through managers or soldiers, the result is the same.
I don't see it as much of a stretch for us to take this all as an act of war in the potential context.
Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies...
Looking at previous instances of treason in U.S. history should illustrate why that "or" is important.
The US Code defining treason is here. Where is this precise definition stating that an enemy must be a party we are at war with actually spelled out? Note that I'm not saying that you are wrong; court precedence may go that way; I simply don't think it is "precisely" spelled out anywhere.
USA is hardly at peace (ever). USA and Russia have been waging a war for quite a while now. It's just been economic or proxy wars or cyber tubes war. Both sides realize an actual open declaration of war is bad optics so it's better to keep the war hidden and tell state media to ignore it.
I see a lot of calls for war with Russia in this thread.
Remember there are millions of Russian people just like you and me, don't confuse them with their government. A major war would be a serious step back and result in massive loss of life and waste of resources.
We need that energy to be devoted in to fixing ourselves, not waging violence.
If they do find link between the Trump camp and Russia, Trump's Executive Orders, appointments, and legislations he signed should all be reversed, too. It is not just for someone with a foreign tie that wants to subvert the US to have any vestige of power and influence. We must start anew with a new election and new and stricter electoral and political ethics law.
What would be the legal mechanism for "reversing" law in this context?
Well yeah but not automatically right? The next executive would have to overturn the EOs, Congress would have to overturn statutes.
This is correct.
eg lifetime appointments
impeachment applies to those.
It’s disgusting to me that two illegitimate Supreme Court justices are now sitting in the most powerful seats of power.
It's called Annulment. Legislative bodies can annul a law, basically treating it like the law never existed. If people were fined because of the law, they'd be reimbursed, ect. Annulling a Presidency would be more complicated, but theoretically could be done. Congress would need to pass a constitutional amendment, the amendment stating that the 45th Presidency and it's legacy would be annulled, and probably have to outline exactly what laws, motions, and positions the Annulment would reverse. It's a process that would take many years and probably never happen, since amendments require such a heavy majority of both houses to pass.
any specific reason why this would require an Constitutional amendment?
"Manafort's complaining about prison conditions right now. I guess it's not gonna get much better" -Shep
That was cold as fuck.
Shep is a ray of light on that network. I may not agree with everything he thinks politically but I definitelyrespect him.
I've been avoiding watching that clip because it's Fox News. But, man, that was great to hear. They sounded somber and rational, not like Fox News. That said, I still don't trust that network or anyone at it.
Someone further down the line said it was Shep Smith, he is only there to give real news. What is sad is most people who watch fox change the channel when he comes on, because you know, those pesky facts getting in the way of reality.
Shep is there to give the ability to say they're "fair and balanced" I'm sure.
Daytime programming like Shep is the news part, Primetime programming like Hannity is the opinion part. If fox news was a news paper, it would have the front page and majority of the paper be the opinion section with the real news relegated to a two page inset
Shep Smith and to a lesser extent Judge Napolitano, are two of the only people on Fox News who regularly report these events truthfully. In my opinion, they're tainted due to who they work for, but they're about the only trustworthy folks who work for Fox News.
I dont watch Fox news very much, but what the heck is with the guys in the background working on 4' wide monitors just doing random Windows stuff? And theyre sitting right up close to them. It looks comical.
I can’t stop looking at the huge ass monitors in the background.
Abso-fucking-lutely. Everything he has done while in office is illegitimate.
The reason Donald trump happened is because Nixon was able to walk away and george bush was able to pardon all the people in the Reagan administration ..
If we prosecuted all those asshole these idiots would think twice before going as corrupt as the trump and his swamp
Perp walk that motherfucker out of the Oval Office. Fuck decorum and etiquette.
It will become the most watch video on Pornhub within 24 hours.
"Dumb blonde gets fucked hard."
Thank you! Any person still supporting Trump is blindly unamerican and activity hurting our country. There are no patriot Trump supporters.
I'm so sick of hearing the media suggest he take a deal to not be prosecuted and resign. Why do you get to commit crime free from consequence just because you're president? You should have MORE consequences for abusing power.
Well that depends now, is that the 'rich person' extent of the law we're talking about? Or the 'poor person' extent of the law? That tends to vary...
To that, I say we can make an argument that Russia's covert influence campaign to undermine American democracy and infect every branch of our government is the exact definition of war in the 21st century.
You don't even need this. He is aiding the enemy in wars in the middle east.
If this case gets tried in the Supreme Court, Gorsuch and Kavanaugh would HAVE to recuse themselves. But we know they won't.
Think about how little both of those guys knew before becoming SC justices. I have a feeling that the evidence against Trump will be so massive that no one in their right mind would rule against taking action.
Every single person that has been let into the closed circle of the investigation has taken one look and noped the fuck out. That in itself is incredibly telling.
Trey “Howdy Doody” Gowdy of Benghazi fame literally retired from politics after seeing what was in those classified FBI reports.
And yet it's still questionable as to whether or not any real accountability will take place. Trump should be a name his descendants are ashamed of... Republicans should be shunned for sitting by knowing full well what's going on... but it's more likely that 2024 will just be another close election.
FTA: "One can already imagine the Washington Post editorial board’s calls to “remember how Gerald Ford pardoned Richard Nixon and healed the country,”"
Meanwhile, people still wave confederate flags
Want Americans to feel like the country is fair?
I want it to be fair, Goddamn it!
Don't stop there. Investigate each and every federal elected office holder and at least the first two levels of confirmed office holders. Very thoroughly. Prosecute anything found to the fullest extent of the law. Routinely and every time someone is elected.
In fact, make holding office Or a position of legal authority an aggravating factor for any crime.
In fact, make holding office Or a position of legal authority an aggravating factor for any crime.
Yes. Every government should be the last place anyone takes their crookery because it's so hard to get away with and the penalities are public humiliation and unreversable sentencing to maximum confinement or something. That government is a tool for corruption shows how massively and completely it has failed countries across the globe.
Yes. It’s time to bring charges, formally, on every crime. Otherwise, we risk waiting until it’s too late.
Here’s the scary part: They Know they’re guilty and the penalty for those crimes. Trump, McConnel, Ryan, Nunes, the NRA, the rest of the GOP leadership all know they’re guilty of treason. They understand the stakes perfectly well. If they feel us move on them, they will start shooting. Figuratively, literally, every way possible because permitting the rule of law to stand is suicide for them.
Trumps border “crisis” and his plan to declare a national emergency? You might want to look into what kind of emergency permits the president to suspend Posse Commitatus so he can deploy active military within US borders and order them to build a wall. He is providing himself with an out. To do this he will essentially need to declare a state of civil war between the democrats who refuse to help him build his “vital” wall and the good upstanding GOP. This will create a legal condition that confers dictator powers onto the president.
He’s not stupid, he’s evil.
Now, now, in all fairness he is pretty stupid too
He is a fucking traitor. He is working for Putin at this very moment. Fuck Donnie Moscow.
Every single one of his enablers and the donors that took advantage of this weak point in American history need to be made examples of. Otherwise, the next time, they'll do it all right.
And he’s currently going batshit about Comey and Mueller on twitter. Bake him away, toys.
The key is getting him in court. Until then he will waffle his way out of any accusations. It has to go through the system, and it has to be public and undeniable.
More today than ever before, the Golden rule holds true... Them that has the Gold, makes the rules.
and America has the best legal system that money can buy.
The majority must speak out as loudly and boldly.
Why does he want to ease sanctions? He waited a little while for us to forget his first action in office was to invite Russians into the Oval Office and then insinuating a fake national security issue at our southern border, while creating one in our airports.
Only Russian trolls or 1% trying to say “no evidence” or “no collusion“.
He's throwing a hissy fit right now on Twitter, it's hilarious.
If someone like me goes to prison for possessing a small amount of drugs, how can you say that Donald Trump shouldn't go to prison?
Our prisons are full of people who did much less than what Donald Trump has done.
Hey baby boomers, were there articles like this in the 70s about Nixon?
I live in America and I thank you for caring about what happens to us.
If/when the full story breaks he will be one of the most despicable pathetic presidents we ever had. Truly a dark time for America. Let’s make it great again and get a REAL president.
I predict insanity defense
I'd be ok with him spending the rest of his years in an asylum.
Rocking back and forth in a straight jacket muttering 'locker her up..hillary..emails...witch hunt' for the rest of his years! Which is almost what he does now, sans the straight jacket.
No one would question that, but then every single thing he's done to fark up the country should be rescinded. Every law, executive order, appointment. And every member of the GOP supporting him as well as his family should be arrested for elder abuse for allowing him to endanger himself and others.
We have a real national emergency on our hands... and it’s sitting in the Oval Office.