Well this is my first post thats had over 1k upvotes, thak u all. Also if u havent seen the movie it appears there are alot of spoilers in the comments so be mindful before reading
Well this is my first post thats had over 1k upvotes, thak u all. Also if u havent seen the movie it appears there are alot of spoilers in the comments so be mindful before reading
|Submited on :||Fri, 11th of Jan 2019 - 22:54:16 PM|
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|Post Name :||t3_af13re|
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|Subreddit ID :||t5_2szyo|
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In the novel, there are three dogs. One is Victor, who is the dog of one of the survivors in the house. Two survivors, Tom and Jules, go out blindfolded and bring back two Siberian Huskies on their mission to wrangle up a few dogs for security.
Later, when Gary opens the curtains in the house in an attempt to get the survivors the look at the creatures, one of the Huskies is thrown against a wall during the madness and killed, and the other is presumed to have run away through an open door.
Afterwards, Malorie takes Victor as a seeing eye dog while searching a bar/nightclub in the neighborhood for audio equipment. While Victor's leash is tied to a beam in the club, Malorie searches the bar while blindfolded. One of the creatures is inside and while blindfolded, she hears Victor see the creatures and go insane. Victor begins screaming and howling horribly and chews his own leg off in a mad fit of self-destruction. Malorie's instinct is to kill Victor but she apologies for bringing him and runs away, in shock from what she's heard and from the terrible realization that dogs are NOT immune to the effects of gazing at a creature.
Very interesting. You say there is a creature inside too! So they aren't somehow magically prevented from entering a building, it's just they can't open doors on their own or something?
Nope, there's nothing stopping them from going indoors, they just need an open door. A creature is inside the room with Malorie and Olympia when they're giving birth. That's when Olympia see it, not like in the film where she sees it from outside the window. The film did some REALLY stupid stuff with the creatures. They don't shake trees, make leaves levitate or appear to you as your worst fear or dead loved one. They don't speak to you in voices either. They seem to just... exist. It's almost as if they don't even know what their effect is. They don't open doors but will go through open doors, though. They don't even seem actively malicious. A creature almost takes Malorie's blindfold off when she's on the river. It pulls the blindfold from her face and she puts her hands on the blindfold and says, "This is mine" and after a tense moment, the creature leaves.
Edit: cleaned up my comment for clarity and added some new context.
Edit: Thank you for the silver!!!
My impression was always that there was nothing proving they were creatures at all, let alone malicious. I came away with a strong lovecraftian vibe... something along the lines of them/it being made of extra-dimensional geometries which the human mind cannot comprehend, and to see one just breaks you. An interesting (but less dramatic) perspective on something like this can be found in the book Flatland.
I honestly found the movie far less scary exactly because of the clear malicious intent.
Dude I didn’t read the book but this or the comment above would have made the movie make a whole lot more sense. There were so many gaping plot holes and inconsistencies in the movie.
Always seems like a movie that really explores some themes could be interesting,but it always ends up being fairly constrained and generic instead. Even taking into account the limitations of what could reasonably be depicted, some plots feel dumbed down.
The problem with trying to explore themes in a movie is they need to fit it all in to a roughly 120 minute timeframe. Longer than that and many people simply get bored. Sometimes they can pull it off, but not nearly as often as they get it wrong.
A big problem in this specific case is that movies operate on "show, don't tell," but Bird Box couldn't show much because of the nature of the monsters and all that.
So they're limited by the amount of content they can put into the movie, and also by the fact that they're adapting a book that I don't think can be adapted into a movie well.
It's an interesting theme that never realizes its potential in this format.
Yeah I appreciate the story a lot more after reading this thread because it sounds like the book didn’t have most of the mistakes that were present in the movie
Agreed! I find their mysterious nature deeply terrifying. Thanks for the recommendation! I'll check it out!
I honestly thought they were mindflayers
What if they're just dead people acting as windows to the afterlife and that knowledge sends people insane? So these ghosts walking around with vague memories of their former selves barely capable of understanding even their own motivations or the fact that they're psyche bombs
Like the afterlife has fractured and knowledge of that spills into the heads of the still living through the windows of their souls
EDIT: and why those with a damaged perception of reality have that knowledge corrupted so it's less caustic to them?
...it really is just SCP: The book.
I just Google'd it and the first image that popped up gave me a heart attack. What's SCP?
It's a creative writing exercise about a secretive foundation whose purpose is to secure and contain extranormal items and beings so that they don't wreak havoc on humanity.
Skips ("SCPs", the name given to any of the cataloged items/entities) range in danger from "curious but harmless" to "one wrong move and reality is erased".
That sounds amazing! Thank you for explaining SPC! I gotta check it out tonight
Man if you really don't know then you're going for a hella of a adventure here! The name stands for Secure Contain Protect, basically its some kind of a community where everyone participates in this amazing universe where you accept the existence of the strange (like, very strange) and submits theirs findings to the wiki (where's the whole idea basically). It's all extremely interesting and if you like the strange I think you should certainly read the wiki and join this whole new world.
Edit: missing word
A community project that has been going on for years, a kind of urban legend wikipedia that documents various paranormal phenomena and creatures. None of it is real, of course, but it is written to feel very real.
You can call it stupid or perhaps that’s better than creatures that float around like a depressed Casper the ghost
I found it scarier than in the film. In the book, there's nothing out of the ordinary when they're around. You take one wrong glance and you're done for. I can see why they made that change but I hated it after reading the book. It was so much scarier. It's like they're roaming around and have no clue what effect they have on other living things.
I’m convinced it’s just a herd of roaming Mimikyu who lost their disguises and are trying to socialize
the novel sounds MUCH better and more intense than the movie was. well i guess that’s expected.
I watched the film first and thought it was ok. I then read the novel and LOVED it! It made me kind of despise the film.
FINALLY, someone who has read the book... i need answers:
The book does a better job of creating the fear of the unknown. It's like you the reader are really unsure of how many of the creatures there are or where they are at, whereas in the movie you know they aren't around because you can see what is happening around the characters.
I think they did they best they could for a film making the part before sanctuary suspenseful, but the book made simply taking the blindfold off at any time utterly terrifying.
The film could have done something similar to the novel, it's just that the direction is just so fundamentally different to the novel. The movie is so tonally LOUD when the novel is sad, introspective and horrifying. The film could have been a legendary classic. Instead, it plays like a zombie movie.
Why is Gary able to see them?
Gary believes that people are having a psychosomatic reaction: people are told that they make people go crazy when they're seen so that's what people do. Gary believes that if you're prepared to look at them, you'll be ok. It's not the case, though. He's insane and delusional and convinces a survivor in the house to pull the blinds down in the house. The survivor who opened the blinds is killed while running to the cellar, where he spent his last days cooped up. Malorie see his body and thinks it's as if he was trying to get back into the cellar to get his sanity back.
The movie takes this and makes a huge point of making it a point that crazy people can see them without a problem. Even if you see one and you seem ok, it's only for a very brief time. You'll eventually become murderous/suicidal.
Edit: corrected details I misremembered after it was pointed out to me.
Ok, so the insane people can see them and not feel suicidal, but they are still kind of under the thing’s “spell” and try to get other people to see it?
Not a spell per se, but in the novel, even if you can see the creature ok, the effect eventually catches up with you and you become self-destructive.
It doesn't seem like Gary in the book is purposefully trying to destroy the group. Is that true?
EXACTLY. He thinks they're deluded idiots. He feels like he's such a smart, high conscience individual that he can look upon the creatures and be fine. He wants to prove to the people in the house that there's nothing to fear from looking at them.
So from what I can remember from the book, there wasn’t a division between insane people and regular people. Once anyone saw the creatures, they became homicidal to their loved ones and suicidal as well. They didn’t want anyone else to see the creatures so they would try to kill everyone around them.
So the scene where the guy locks himself in the room to watch the surveillance video is a lot more ominous. They tie him to the chair not only for himself but for the others in the house. Once he sees them on video in the book, he tries to get people to come into the room he’s in for a long time (to kill them) before he kills himself.
But what about birds? Do they go insane and die as well? Or just fly off?
Also, do they mention how Gary, or some insane people can gaze upon the creatures without going insane? Or is it just accepted that crazy people are just... well... crazy enough to see them?
Yes! While on the river, it starts raining blood and dead birds because a flock of birds saw a creature from above and started killing each other up high.
It's not very clear why some folks can see them and not become instantly murderous/suicidal, but there's speculation that some broken minds can't really break any more. Gary see them without a hitch, but he's obviously delusional/insane, but hides it. Olympia sees one and goes insane instantly, but for a brief moment hands Malorie her baby.
The movie has gangs of crazies driving around. That's not in the book.
Whoa.. That's gnarly and I love it!
So I take it the scene with Tom shooting the other guy before himself was from the book too? Or was that just Hollywood?
Also, minus the dogs, what scene or theme was vastly different in the movie than in the book?
Yeah, it was wild! Actually, Tom died in the house, killed when Gary convinced Don to pull the blinds open and tear the blankets off the windows. He was never romantic with Malorie and it's a shame because she really felt safe with him. Malorie lived with Boy and Girl for 4 years by herself.
The movie follows the structure of the novel pretty accurately but plays really fast and loose with details and makes some really weird choices, especially with the creatures.
What's the weirdest choice?
The nature of the creatures. In the novel, they don't seem to have any malicious intent. They don't chase people or actively try to hurt them or possess people to do their bidding. They just exist.
In the film, they're like this evil force that chases you and shows you your worst fears, your dead loved ones and speaks to you in voices. That's not in the novel AT ALL.
Why don’t they just stab their eyes out?
In the book the non-blind people in the school apparently take to blinding themselves
In the novel, the folks at the school had a terrible breach that resulted in a woman killing 4 kids. Afterwards, they blinded themselves with whatever they could to protect themselves. After they fortified themselves, they eased off the self-blinding.
So why not blind themselves in the movie and never go to the sanctuary
Malorie almost blinded the babies with paint thinner but couldn't go through with it. She's glad she didn't though, when she arrives at the school and the kids see a cow and goats and chickens for the first time. She would have robbed them of that had she not been willing to take chances to survive.
What would a baby do to kill itself was all I could think about when that scene With the newborns was happening, can’t imagine them being able to do it
Based on how the dog reacted, I'm assuming the babies would have started seizing and flailing and screaming until they died from injury or starvation. It's a pretty horrible thought.
Also she's attacked by presumably insane wolves.
In the book they try this and it works for a while until the dog goes crazy and kills itself while she's blindfolded.
Yeah, I think animals are also affected, but birds tend to try to fly away at any unknown movement. That or it also affects mammals brains. Would a marsupial be affected too? What about non-mammals, like iguanas, turtles, or fish
IIRC, in the book Birds are actually affected as well. This is the reason they are kept in a opaque box rather than a cage that they would be able to see out of.
How is the sanctuary safe, btw? I never understood that part. For some reason, I thought the monster or whatever is scared of birds.
It shows you can't see through the trellis. It lets some natural light through, but it presumably is enough to prevent seeing the monsters.
Can't the monsters just break through the trellis?
They seem unable to move anything physical, beyond whipping up a breeze.
We also have no idea what they're trying to do. They may not be intentionally hunting people, it's just you happen to die if you look at them and they happen to be everywhere.
I mean, the monsters were whispering in the voices of people they knew, telling them to take their blindfolds off. That defintely seems like they're intentionally hunting and killing people.
Unfortunately the book and the movie seem to have different motivations for the creatures
Some people are discussing the book and the movie and contradicting each other without realizing it.
It's possible that the neurological field generated by these beings makes the target hear whatever they need to hear to look at them.
It would be similar to The Doctor's psychic paper.
It's pretty much neurophage bread and butter.
If they feed on neurological power then the eyes are the easiest way to siphon it indirectly, and the draining of this power is known to cause madness.
Your primary directive is to swim closer.
I only saw the movie, but near the end didn't it show 3 of them rushing to her location?
In the book, they are physical. One of them attempts to take off Mallory’s blindfold. They also have a distinct smell.
Edit: What they are doing here is never touched upon, as no one really knows. But Tom’s theory is that of the Parallel Universe theory. That the creatures managed to break free of their own world, by accident or by force, that they don’t mean to drive humans crazy, and are as sad as we, the humans, are by their effect.
I like the idea that they aren’t trying to kill us. They just stumbled upon our world and watched the breakdown of society thinking “What the hell is wrong with these things? we’re not that ugly”
Man that almost makes me feel bad for them
“Hey excuse me, excuse me miss! Miss! Hi, my wife and I just got here, do you happen to know any good places to get food”
“OH MY GOD I’M GOING TO KILL MYSELF”
“Christ what’s her problem? Come on Karen I think I see a Denny’s over there”
They seem unable to move anything physical but how did they shake the car near the beginning
They can make a bit of wind.
Apparently that's not in the book though, in the book they are totally silent and uninteractive. Which makes the birds all the more important.
I guess it's a bit of an inconsistency caused by them wanting to make the creatures more dramatic.
Yeah, also seems easier to convey in a visual medium if there's at least some visible effect. Makes sense they'd choose wind, a force of nature that is already invisible-yet-visible.
I think they are intentionally hurting people, as they do not cause insane people to commit suicide. Instead those who are insane make normal people look at them. Also I believe that the pictures Gary drew were of the creatures.
We only have Gary's word that it's previously insane people that react differently. It was part of his story that was mostly a lie anyway. It could easily be random, or have a different trigger.
In the grocery store the writer comments that the crazy guy outside the door was in jail last time he heard and had something wrong with his head. This confirms Gary’s story
They met a crazy guy in the grocery store who tried to attack them. So we already had the information that crazy people were affected differently.
Look at the others who attacked later in the movie. They wanted to make Tom look as well.
Not sure but I read online that in the book, in the sanctuary they gouged out their eyeballs so they would be blind and therefore be safe.
The movie director wanted a happy ending so they changed it. But they're still sorta trapped there.
Close, they deliberately blinded themselves at first but specifically told Malorie that it was no longer required.
Just finished the book a few days ago. I don’t think I’m going to watch the movie, though. Don’t want to be let down like that again.
I took it that the sanctuary was safe because the leader said that the birds warn those that are sighted that the monster is coming so they go inside.
And rember when the birds above her started to kill themselves and fall onto her
I’m assuming the book makes way more sense than the movie? The dumbest part of the movie is the last chase scene where they are getting into that blind place and the ghosts are whooshing all around them. It feels like the film makers wanted this to be an extremely tense climax but it didn’t feel like they were in any real danger
Yeah it just felt like they were running for no reason. Like it’s shown already the monster probably won’t hurt you if you don’t look at it. So with the blindfolds on they would’ve been fine even if they had stopped to catch their breath.
I think the psychological effect was most severe then. That was the danger. They were being tempted and tricked to take a look. It nearly overwhelmed them.
When the things aren't close by, they aren't compelled so much.
I enjoyed the movie right up to the forest 'chase' and lame ending.
Probably saw a giant vacuum cleaner.
Just a note on this movie. The grumpy old white guy (forgot his name) said he's always right, and if you look at every decision where he was considered an ass, he was actually right. He said no to his wife helping Sandra Bullock. Sandra Bullock came in and then let the pregnant blond woman in (who old guy didn't like), blond woman let creepy killer guy in (who old guy tried to kill). Also at the store, they insisted on opening the freezer even when old guy is like fuck no.
Old guy was always right.
He also said they should just stay at the store and leave the others behind. Then that couple left the house with the car. I noticed this about him too.
They really should have just brought everyone over to the store. They all could have lived there for a year at least.
But the lunatics would have swarmed that place all the time for food and supplies.
Out of the 3 people in the house, only 1 left the house with the car, the other was in the store
But the one left behind is the one who convinced her to take the car. Remember, she was repulsed by him from the start.
Also the reason why Walking Dead is filled with guys like him lol
Nice people will have their food and stuff stolen buy assholes, they will refuse to leave others behind, and in a world where zombies aren't really a thing in pop culture, nice people would have trouble headshotting other "people" whereas assholes would only need to see the zombies kill one person to make up their mind about killing them
I think what he means is that in apocalyptic situations like bird box or TWD, to increase the chances of your own survival, you have to throw morality out the window. People with a strong moral compass die much sooner than those who are able to stay detached (AKA your typical asshole or narcissist).
Hence, TWD is chock full of people like the old guy from bird box, who are generally assholes that can put themselves before others much more easily, and live longer in the apocalypse as a result. It's hard, and will probably make you feel like a terrible person if you don't learn to accept it, but if you want to survive in an apocalypse, you and your family come first.
When society breaks down in that kind of situation, your needs and priorities have to shift if you want to live very long. On Maslow's Hierarchy of needs, shelter, food, water, warmth, and security come before morals and social norms.
To sum up, the assholes will survive an apocalypse, the decent people won't.
“Are you a simpleton” is my go-to line now.
That “old guy” is John Malkovich. Put some respek on his name
Every post apocalyptic story has the "grumpy asshole" who just so happens to be right about everything. Sucks when it's not acknowledged and they're killed off as a the result of others anyways. The truly competent ones never have great luck.
I had 2 questions watching it... one of which was answered by the end, but how the fuck is an infant going to kill itself?
Or would it just see "it" and grow up crazy and another tool for it?
Maybe it wouldn't. Maybe it would try. Maybe it'd hold it's breath.
You can't hold your own breath until you die, once you pass out from oxygen deprivation your reflexes take over and you breath again
Maybe the baby will kill itself with sudden infant death syndrome then.
Wait, you're telling me I can just hold my breath to get out of any boring, scary, or awkward situation that I happen to find myself in?
I mean, they’re avoiding the fact that you’d have to have the resilience and willpower of a Navy Seal to even get to the point of passing out, but sure, if grandma ever whips out her infamous pound cake just hold your breath
Either they'd become crazy like you said or they'd wiggle themselves from beds or somehow obstruct their mouths so they choke.
Does the entity have to understand the concept of suicide? Like a human sees these creatures and they break and just want to end themselves so they don't have to live with the knowledge of what they saw.
An infant young enough wouldn't understand the concept of death. Maybe it just goes made with knowledge. It's brain crumbles and it does nothing but spend it's life screaming and thrashing around, assuming someone takes the time to continue feeding it
Do typical reckless shit you see from an infant like move towards the edges, touch things it shouldn’t, you know
Imagine the astronauts in space...
I frequently think of this in movies. Like, well anyone on the ISS is fucked right now. Especially apocalypse related movies. Idk if there is one already but I'd enjoy movie about a cataclysmic event ending the world told from the perspective of astronauts and their slow decent into madness
They always have a capsule docked to the ISS capable of manned reentry, so the astronauts would have the pleasure of returning to earth to get fucked
My question is how was the sanctuary safe from the crazy people?
Maybe they figure since it's a bunch of blind people they can't make them look, so there's no point. They don't seem set out explicitly to kill, but moreso to force people to look at the creatures. But I'm not 100% sure because they did also kill people before they got the chance to see the creatures, but mainly because they were fighting indoors and at serious risk of death themselves
It's not really clear what's up with these people. Like if the creature is controlling them, if they are aware that people die BECAUSE they see the monsters, or what. I figure they mostly were just dedicated to spreading the joy they got from seeing the monsters with others who could see it
Plus maybe the crazy people just don't know about it. There might be a blind school in my city but I honestly have no idea
WERE GONNA FKN KILL YOU
I’m blind tbh
lmao oh cool cool cool tyte tyte tyte peace
Likely in an unknown, hard to find location. Presumably they had issues with them in the past though. That is why they are hesitant to let in Malorie with her kids and then check their eyes when they do.
Unknown/hard to find location that they give to anyone who asks on a radio.
I really thought the ending was gonna be that the people there where the crazies. And once inside and with no blindfold they would reveal at least to us the audience that the creatures can come inside and stay inside and malorie and the kids would die.
Yeah, when they came on the radio my first thought was " I bet it's the crazy people luring our survivors".
Animals are affected
Why not both?
Never hurts to at least know they're around.
Movie Spoilers.... . . . . . .
I never understood why the security camera thing didn't work. They even mention why it SHOULD work. Camera technology is not technically seeing a live image as if it were mirrors or something. Everything is encoded and digitalized into 1s and 0s.
I guess you can explain it away based on the creatures. It's not some magic trick they do to make you kill yourself, I'm guessing just the perceived image of them is enough for your brain to snap?
Because we don't know what they ARE, or even WHY they make people go crazy, its impossible to know why some things work and others don't.
I think the camera was clever. What about a thermal camera, or just a heat image camera? What about a special camera that renders things in a super low resolution - like forced pixelating?
I imagine the military is working on it and/or tried it in that world.
I commend that dude for trying, but I think they should have started way smaller and then worked up.
They had an object detector in the car. It showed dots on a screen to represent an arbitrary object in proximity. It seemed to be safe. But there is no way to know for sure that a technique is safe. You can only know that it's not safe when somebody starts trying to kill themselves.
I think the point of no return is (not) being able to comprehend the creatures, so because a car's proximity indicator is so limited, it's safe to use. The pixelation might have worked but only until you could see its silhouette or something, because then you begin to comprehend them and then it's either death or madness.
Yeah there definitely seems to be some degree of abstraction that makes it ok to "look" at the creatures. I wondered about LIDAR mapping a 3D representation of the area.
ASCII Camera would have an actual use for once, got it!
"The image of an Angel becomes an angel itself" The Time of Angels, Doctor Who
As much as I love doctor who they really went bat shit crazy trying to one up themselves with the weeping Angel's. It's like they were scary enough but then
If you stare to long they will get you! If you record them they will get you! If you use a mirror they will get you!
It's like fine fuck it already give me a fucking sledge hammer
Uhhhhh they will get you?
Especially when they did that whole "tHe StaTuE oF lIbErTy iS aN AnGeL tOo!" bit.
Like at what point is someone NOT staring at the statue of liberty?
Then they went from being "the one alien in the galaxy to kill you kindly" to snapping peoples necks or some shit
Remember David Copperfield?
With that sheet in front of the Statue, it went on a killing rampage. He didn't magically let it disappear, he knew the secret of the angels and abused that by not letting anyone see it...
I concur. You could not look at Medusa, but you could look at her reflection. They had to make it reach thru video otherwise everyone would build a camera helmet with their phone.
Yes, it's like looking at an image that hacks your brain. If you make a copy of the image, it doesn't matter what it's comprised of, it still creates the visual 'hack'.
Like an optical illusion works on you whether it’s printed on paper or viewed on a computer/screen
Also they talked about thermal cameras...yet why didn’t they try that? Thermal cameras are literally JUST colored pixels, assuming they are spirits, they might just appear as either cold or warm spots.
Anyone else wondering why they put a school for the blind beside a dangerous river?
My local school for the blind is at the top of a very steep hill. Being blind doesn’t mean someone would just fall into a river or down a hill.
before society fell, you could get there by road, the river is a non issue otherwise.
In the movie she couldn't drive a car or fly a plane there. The river was faster than walking such a long distance.
I get the premise of the being that you look at... but is there just one of it? Are they everywhere? Does it just appear anywhere?
There are multiple and there are a shit ton of them. But for the most part, usually only one is around at a time. But it isnt always around all the time. Just most of the time. And they cant go inside.
I never understood that. Okay they can’t really interact with physical objects but what if someone leaves a door open or if one tried to get in as someone was about to leave a building?
I was thinking about that during the movie. How they just couldn't get through cracked doors or windows. What if one just slips in when someone comes back from a supply run? Is the building they're in ruined now and the spirit is just trapped inside?
The book explained it by them securing the main entrance from the rest of the house, like an airlock? The inner door to the rest of the house is closed, so when you open the outside door the most it can do is get in the "airlock" and therefore just one room to (somehow) check without compromising the rest of the house. They had to be extremely careful about sealing/covering openings.
In the book they aren't necessarily malicious but there's a lot of them. They can and will go into open doors but they don't actively try to break into anywhere.
In the book they are able to go inside through open doorways or windows. There are several moments where characters are stuck indoors with them. They took out that aspect in the movie. Movie was okay, book was much more terrifying.
Looks like it’s time to read the book ¯\(ツ)/¯
They can go inside through an open door. They could follow someone through a door. This happens in the book, but not the movie.
In the book it's established that dogs are affected
Being blind in general is just a way of surviving the movie
But Barkbox is already patented soooo
Its best to not examine it too closely. They drove 5 blocks by the navigation system.
In the book a dog sees the monster and kills itself tho. It’s literally birds and birds only that aren’t affected
Birds are effected in the book too, a large group of them sees a creature from overhead and start to kill each other, and have to be kept in an opaque box rather than a cage
Birds get affected. A flock saw one and started murdering each other if I remember right
Was looking for this. Read the book over the summer and I was wondering how close the movie is to it.
I did read the book before I saw the movie -- and they did actually use guide dogs. They went out searching for them and found a few huskies.
The living crazy people would have just killed your guide dog and then you
I feel so bad for the monsters having to see everyone kill themselves.
They just want to give the humans a hug but the humans keep killing themselves.
I wonder will thermal camera be affected?