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Or at least the value of what he's asking for it.
IIRC -- it was predicted actual completion of the wall would run about 10 times what he was asking.
It'll cost way more than that. Lawsuits for eminent domain, eminent domain itself, hauling all the material to bum fuck nowhere desert, shady contractors, and government waste. I feel like a 2000 mile wall would probably cost more than California's high speed rail (I could definitely be wrong, I don't know enough about construction to say accurately) and the rail is estimated to cost about $87b but it'll probably be more.
I forgot about lawsuits! Cards Against Humanity bought some land on the border and split it 150,000 ways.
That's 150,000 individual lawsuits to try to seize the land...
EDIT: Correction -- they bought the land, they did not split it. My bad, I misunderstood their project.
Other than people intentionally trying to troll the government, you have real people whose homes and businesses and even a historic church that are right where they want to build the wall. These people are going to have to give up their homes and ways of life (there are a number of fishermen who rely on access to the river) for some big stupid wall that won't even keep people out, all because of some stupid campaign promise.
all because of some stupid campaign promise
Naw. He's broken campaign promises; he clearly doesn't care about doing that. Whatever his reasons are, it's definitely not because he promised.
I’m running under the assumption that the steel and/or aluminum are coming from a Russian friend or two.
C'mon, it's way more basic then that. I feel like from everything we've seen, Trump isn't even a good businessman - it's not really about the deals, his Russian friends, or the money, money - it's all about his image, ego, and legacy.
On some level I think it's the idea of leaving his mark - he wants physical proof of his presidency, something to point at and brag about. But I also think to him, a lot of his image is riding on this - on some level I feel like this is all sunk cost fallacy - Trump kinda knows he really isn't in a position to get his wall - but he made it such a big point of his campaign, that not getting it will make him look weak or foolish, and the more he doubles down and does dumb shit, the harder it will be for him to back down.
It's like the crap about him leaving negotiations by slamming his hands on the table and saying "bye bye" - he thinks he's being tough by not budging. It's 100% about ego and image.
That’s a bingo.
This one is interesting.
For Trump, saving face is extremely important. How he thinks other people see him is paramount to his feeling of self worth. He will burn the country to the ground before he admits to any form of mistake. He's a narcissist through and through.
George W. Bush tried a border wall project and 1/3rd of the eminent domain cases are still in litigation today. Even if Tump gets the money the wall isn't going to be built during his term
The best part? It wasn't even supposed to be a campaign promise. His staff just told him to talk about building walls because it was the easiest way to get him to remember to talk about immigration policy at all. It was only later that he and his supporters turned it into a real promise for a real wall, instead of a mere anti-immigrant mnemonic as his staff intended.
Only if each individual has a deed and full ownership of the land. Otherwise they can likely sue for the whole plot as one lawsuit (albeit one with a shitload of defendants).
The funny part is, there is already 700 miles of wall. There are still 100+ court cases open regarding the 2006 fence act. The wall is still not completed because of these court cases and there are random 200 yard sections that are open all along the border. Over 1000 miles of the mexico/US border is private land.
And that doesn't cover ongoing maintenance costs. It would literally be better to take $5B and set it on fire than to use it to build a wall. At least that way it would only be wasting $5B.
Let's be honest, when has a government paid construction job ever been finished on time and below 5x the projected cost?
Edit: Yes, I get it. There are a few rare times it has happened out of literally thousands. And when it does happen it's so rare it's NEWSWORTHY.
In the remote desert..... Where'd they'd have to truck in supplies and possibly build temp camps
they need to build the roads to send the trucks on also
Those roads would also have to become permanent so that border patrol could actively patrol the wall. Works both ways too, if you get over/under/through the wall, well now you have some nice infrastructure to escape on.
i feel like no one is talking about how much it would cost to have people patrol that sumbitch.
If its built, the cost to maintain it and patrol it will be several billion dollars every year, *FOREVER*.
That sounds about right actually.
Wait, you're telling me we can't neglect the wall or the men patrolling it? Worked perfectly fine in Westeros for thousands of years!
They have no intention of maintaining it. Building it is a symbolic gesture, they just want to draw a line across the continent to say 'This is the white side, that's the brown side'
Patrol AND upkeep, the desert has a way with weathering structures down.
Also, Trumps prototype for his 'steel wall' was easily breached with a saw:
Of course, there's also the fact that, and I know this is shocking, there are these crazy contraptions called ladders. And you know what? They exist in Mexico too!! In fact... most of the ladders sold here in the USA are made in... wait for it.... Mexico!!
But that was steel from previous administrations. This administration has big strong beautiful steel.
The roads will cost more than he wants for the wall, then the monitoring for the wall, the repair that will all cost more than he's saying the wall will cost. The whole thing is a fucking disaster, will cost so so much more than he's saying. This is a money grab, he's going to push that 5billion to a friendly construction company which is offering some business or some account that is tied to Trump MASSIVE kickbacks. THere is no one in the world who is in a room telling him this wall can be built for 5billion, there is someone saying we can start construction, find ways to waste money and make you and a few friends a fortune off starting this project.
Do they plan on placing the wall in the river? Or is Trump wanting to give US land away to Mexico???
I think Trump would just like to get rid of the river all together.
That’s why my dad argues the Democrats should just give him the $5 billion. Here’s your $5 billion for your stupid 90-foot see-through concrete wall. Two stipulations: 1) the full engineering and environmental studies have to be completed and all land acquired before this money is spent on anything else. 2) in return we want the voting rights act fully restored and enforced.
And no, none of it can be spent on fences. You promised us a wall, get to work asshole.
Trump wants no stipulations, including that the money be spent on a wall. It's a literal slush fund.
Lmao. More like severance package.
The current 5.7B figure is to pay for 100 miles of wall (1/20th of the total length), and maintenance on ~150 miles of already existing wall.
His next executive emergency will be to use captured migrants as slave labor. He'll call it "making Mexico pay for the wall". And his cultists will love it.
I don't even get why people don't understand that this really is a wall that will never, ever ultimately be built. A project of this size would take years and years beyond Trump's presidency, and no successor of his is going to actually continue to try and complete this boondoggle.
The Big Dig in Boston was supposed to cost $2.8 billion and be completed in 7 years. Instead it cost many times that and was completed in 15 years.
The way Trump envisions it, it is simply not a viable project.
Edit: forgot an "it"
It is really debatable whether you could even call the "Big Dig" completed. They never finished the project as outlined. They reached a breaking point and said fuck it that's done now.
They completed everything but the rail link. They bored the rail tunnels and repacked them with loose fill. If the rail link plan gets revisited, opening up those tunnels will be orders of magnitude cheaper and less disruptive than the transit equivalent of open-heart surgery the Big Dig was.
They are already talking about trying to finish it now in Boston. The fact that North and South station aren't connected is a huge hole in mass transit around the city.
They are thinking it will be 21.5B now. :(
Didn't they scrap the plan entirely because of the cost? That's what I heard last, but that was months ago.
they can't scrap the plan: they are legally required to extend the green line as per the legislation that enabled them to build the car section of the big dig.
then again, they were legally obligated to build it by 2014...
Boston is much better from the hassle of the big dig. They should finish it. It ain’t gettin’ any chepah!
I have a couple of very hardcore Trump fans within my WoW guild. I've had this discussion with them just a few days ago - and it's quite insane how impossible it is to convince them that $5 billion is not even sufficient enough to build a wall that spans all of the southern border let alone the efficacy of it.
It was quite ridiculous at some of their arguments. My favorites were:
"How do you know the wall won't work?? Why don't we try it??"
Well gee, the stats show that the vast majority of illegal immigration isn't from the southern border, its from overextended visas. Why should we spend $5 billion on something that doesn't make sense from a statistical point of view?
"Well walls work! I mean look at the vatican - they have a wall! Prisons have walls!"
Well walls work in the Vatican because it's, relatively speaking, a very tiny space. I also said prisons also have a very finite amount of square feet that walls have to be built on and the tools that they can access (ladders, saws, etc.) to bypass the wall is much easier to control.
Let's be honest.. no one who supports Trump at this point is going to be convinced by something irrelevant like "reality" or "logical arguments".
I'm in the same position with a friend of mine. At this point I just nod along and change the topic asap. They aren't interested in a rational discussion, just feeling good.
"feeling good" is an interesting way of saying "being proud of being an ignorant bigot"
I have to say some of my World of Warcraft friends are some of the biggest red pill people in the entire world. I looked the other way on one of them because he's the main tank for a guild but seriously. I listen to this guy telling me that a woman was being a tease because she decided to wear a skirt to Starbucks like these people exist and they're out there they occasionally log off World of Warcraft... occasionally
What the hell, you ain't joking
I like the part where Bannon describes Milos as an “amoral nihilist” as if that’s a good thing. These alt-right people seriously want to watch the world burn.
I mean it's smart. How do you make "gamers" feel like they're being targeted? Easy, just to point to examples of those damn SJW's and their forced progressive agenda (aka whenever a PoC or woman shows up in their VIDEO GAME).
It's why you get people who think the option to select a female playable character in AC: Odyssey is HISTORICAL REVISIONISM.
Bud find another guild.
MMORPGs today are chock full of these morons. Especially RuneScape.
The only people that piss me off more are the foreigners who haven't been paying attention at all and then try to tell you that both sides are the same, or that shit's normal etc. Fuck off with that shit, you don't know my country the way I do.
god, osrs especially is full of bigoted people who get nasty if youre not a white straight dude. its stupid and sad
and yeah im not american but im VERY against the GOP, and i love seeing 'europeans' coming in to point out both sides are just as bad bad and we're 'dumb' for being upset about it
I live in a big city, the first guy i've ever actually met to unironically call the Civil War "the war of northern aggression" was a WoW guildmate.
Gamergate types. It's really easy to brainwash the more "incel" inclined
Sadly...it makes the rest of us look bad
Not only that but do you think it's the walls keeping people in? If there were no guards do you think the prisoners would just not figure out how to get over, under, through it? Let alone the fact Werner Ladders are made in fucking Juarez Mexico, oh and they make a 48' ladder. So many reasons it's a stupid fucking idea.
Or they will continue to use the many tunnels that already exist. A wall is fucking stupid
Walls work... when heavily patrolled.
Some have used the wall in Hungary as proof. It is true that it was successful in reducing illegal crossings. But it's only ~100 miles long and is manned by 900 soldiers.
I've had friends in a discord try to use the Great Wall of China in an argument because they said "it worked". Got no response when I called them out on how the Mongols just went around it and started a new dynasty in China... Sure, it worked great at keeping out bandits that didn't want to go around the wall. But they also had to have large armies protecting the gates and walls... Otherwise the wall would have served little purpose.
Oh I can win this one.
I had one give me a fantastic example, in /r/knitting if you can believe it.
He seriously used the Berlin wall as his example, like it wasn't a deeply shameful piece of history.
Also, the Berlin wall was absolutely tiny compared to the US - Mexico border. Like it doesn't even make sense to compare them. Do they really think it is viable to build manned watchtowers and spotlights and things like that along the whole thing??
The kind of person to praise the Berlin Wall doesn't have shame regarding it's symbolism.
But of course they're not going to use the money to streamline the system so that overstayed visas will be a thing of the past. That would literally solve much of the "illegal immigrant crisis" in a relatively short amount of time.
The eminent domain court cases alone would take years. There are still 60-70 eminent domain cases pending in court from the 2006 Secure Fence Act, and that was passed over a decade ago.
When you stop viewing it as an effective barrier meant to accomplish the stated goals of limiting illegal immigration, drug trafficking, or terrorists, and instead view it as a massive project intended to provide ample opportunity for GOP members, including Trump, to graft billions of dollars from the government in the final days they have left ... then, it makes sense.
It's a symbol to their idea of "MAGA". It has literally nothing to do with effectiveness. It is just a permanent monument to hating "illegals".
I thought it was just Trump’s monument, his legacy to leave behind so people will forever have to think about him. His narcissistic ticket to immortality.
Everything about the project is completely detached from reality. It's purely about political victories. Trump feels he needs to secure this money, he thinks he looks weak if he can't fund his wall. I don't know why he cares about this so much, since his base will really just eat up any excuse he feeds them, but he seems to really want this. If he gets the money, that's enough for him. He'll build a bit of fence somewhere maybe, or they'll just take a picture of an old one, and claim it as a victory.
That's what's funny to me as well. Most national endeavors of this scope take decades to happen, and the politicians today can get the ball rolling, but it doesn't even begin happening till years after the initial seed is planted.
I think what's really going on here is that Trump knows 2020 is coming, and if he hasn't broken ground on this fantastical wall then he'll have broken a campaign promise and won't be able to rally his base as effectively. And he's also wanting this to be his legacy. A big physical object he can point to and say, "I did that." It's like his political biological clock is ticking and he decided it's now or never to make his stand.
Though I think he also expected to make it happen before the new Congress was seated, or at least make a last ditch effort at the very end there, since he knew they wouldn't work with him as easily. Now I just think he's got the nation by the balls and he has no exit strategy to get out of the shutdown other than his no-compromise position of wall or bust. He's painting himself into the corner and then refusing to acknowledge that he did that and will have to walk on the fresh paint to get out of it.
The real stupid thing though is that Mitch McConnell is enabling Trump's all or nothing approach, and taking us even further down the road of stupidity.
It has nothing to do with a realistic expectation. It's about the symbol of what the wall is to them - a big middle finger to immigrants. Specifically brown ones.
Also, it’s a way to graft billions of dollars in government contracts for something that will never be completed.
Also I bet dollars to donuts he'll try to fund a company he owns to build it so that he makes the money personally. If he is as broke as people believe he really needs this.
It was never about the wall though. To Trump, it is a way to show he can accomplish his #1 campaign goal and it's a way not to look weak. To republicans it's to continue to vilinize immigrants so their supporters won't realize how terrible of a job they have been doing. To Democrats it is symbolic for hatred and the ideologies we fought against in WW2. Only Trumps die-hard followers who have been scared by fox news see it as just a wall meant to keep people out.
The funny thing is, we already have a fence.
The funnier thing is, if it is really an emergency, why didn't they build it when they held both Houses of Congress? Why asking and blaming the Democrats now?
The even funnier thing is that building a wall is just about as far as you can get from an emergency response.
"Everybody just stay on your own side for a couple decades until we get this barrier finished, ok?"
That's assuming there was ever an emergency to begin with.
The funniest thing is, if it is really an emergency, why doesn't he just declare an emergency instead of this bullshit "maybe I will, maybe I won't, find out on next weeks episode of The
Apprentice White House."?
Because doing so would set a precedent that hasn't been set before. It basically makes the president a dictator that can circumvent congress on any issue by claiming it's a "national emergency". I think at least some republicans realize this and are hesitant to go along with Trump on it because they know in 2, (fuck I hope not 6 years) it will be used against them.
Edit: and to be clear this is obviously not a national emergency.
Right, but that'll still be true whether he does it now, or next week, or in 6 months. Meanwhile, every day that he talks about declaring a national emergency but doesn't hurts the case that it's actually an emergency.
Simple! He needs an excuse to be able to run the government the same way he runs his businesses...
For real though, I have a feeling that Russia and China play heavily into this - take that with a grain of salt though, it's just a feeling.
That has really bugged me. A pointless public works project in the middle of nowhere that is championed by a guy who likely owes millions to organized crime and foreign interests. It just feels really convenient.
That thought has crossed my mind. I’ve also wondered if his arrogant, narcissistic ass knows his days as President are numbered so he wants his dumbass wall to be the legacy/monument of his presidency. Essentially, he wants his own version of something long lasting to be named/associated with him like Obamacare.
I 100% agree
The wall is a red herring
It's a distraction.
The really funny thing is Trump sometimes acts like a fence counts as a wall but hasn't spent the money he did get to fix them.
Oh well that's simple, here hasn't figured out how to get kickbacks for fixing the fence yet. Probably because he's under way more scrutiny than normal, and is a fucking moron.
Because he couldn't care less about the actual wall. He just wants more money to siphon off for himself and his friends through construction contracts. They could be building a swimming pool in the middle of the ocean for all it matters. The wall was just the most convenient massive construction job he could come up with to convince his uneducated racist base to blindly rally behind.
This is a good point. He has also claimed multiple times the wall is already basically built, referencing the fencing. I remember because some anchor on Fox even called him out on it. And she is one of the true believers. I think her and similar pundits on TV are why he has dug in so hard on this. He wants to hear praise on TV.
Just today he's tweeted about how construction of the wall has already started with a picture of said wall and also tweeted about how past presidents didn't do anything to secure the border. Those border fences he tweeted were built by past fucking presidents.
Funny thing is, illegals come through airports now as expired visas. They already fly and tunnel around the wall. Maybe we should solve why they come illegally rather than how.
The real number is north of $100 billion.
Can you imagine how much fucking healthcare that would be?
The Republican-controlled Senate estimated $70 billion. With $750 million a year in maintenance. That's $2 million a day or $86,000 for a single hour. In government it isn't uncommon for costs to double or more over estimates. There is no such thing as ahead of schedule or under budget when it comes to the government. Especially when the number was being generous on the cost to buy land. Since that report many deep pocket individuals have bought land needed with the promise to fight it and make it as costly to the government as possible.
IIRC the company Cards Against Humanity did just this, accepting donations from their massive fan base to buy a huge chunk of land that the wall would be built on. It was a while back so I'm not up to speed on the progress that they made but it sure gave me a good chuckle when I heard about it.
Don't forget the Russian/Trump skim
But healthcare for all is for socialists!
It's for vaguely 234 of 2000 miles of border wall for which there's no public design or plan. Their current fencing projects are running over budget already too.
Lets really put this in perspective. Those steel slats are what, 3 feet wide with 1 foot inbetween them? That would mean 75 miles is 98,438 slats. $2.6 billion for say 100,000 slats is $26,000 per slat. And they can be destroyed with $20 in tools and 10 minutes of work.
Not only that, the steel is worth money to scavengers. I can see construction on the left and scavengers 10 miles west tearing it backdown.
This sounds like it came straight out of a looney toons bit
Price of wall: a lot
Price of bulldozer: <0.00001% of wall
Price to repair damage done to wall by bulldozer: a lot
It's not a barrier against immigration, it's a gift to mexican drug cartels.
First thing I thought of when I read the headline. Dems need to hammer this point home more. This is just the start of what he will be asking for.
Quickmafs, that 34.6 Million a mile.
ARE THEY MAKING IT OUT OF TRUMP BRAND METAL SLATS?
Well you have to factor in labor as well as whatever additional cost there are for the foundation and clearing work
Still, 35 million a mile for 75 miles. If he really wanted to do the whole border (approx 2,000 miles) we are looking at closer to $70B. You don't think that money could be spent better else where?
We have way bigger problems than a manufactured crisis on the border. This is all about him getting re-elected.
Oh no there are plenty of places where it could be better spent healthcare, schools, roads
But I like trying to piece together how much it would cost and how long it would take
Then Donnie should hurry up on getting Mexico to pay for his wall. He's had over two years now.
He keeps saying the USMCA is paying for it now. Not sure why he needs to keep the Government shutdown if that's the case.
It's almost like he's a sleazebag, con man..
The USMCA is not even in place. It has not been voted on by congress. NAFTA is in place.
USMCA requires two thirds of Senate to approve.
It's not happening.
Eh, it might. It's in essence just a slightly modified version of NAFTA anyways. Which is why it's ridiculous that Trump claims it's some kind of huge accomplishment or that it will net us the 20+ billion we'd need for his wall.
The USMCA isn't really that bad. At least, not really any worse than NAFTA. There are some things in it that are good for us, and some that aren't as good for us. It's a pretty milkwater change that Trump is really just using to pretend he did something. I hope his future cellmate is impressed, but whether Congress passes it or not doesn't really bother me.
I think that's why he hasn't gotten shit from the left for "negotiating" the 'USMC,' he basically didn't do a god damn thing (except increase Disney's stranglehood on public domain).
Canada & Mexico only signed on to USMCA because it's basically NAFTA 1.5. NAFTA got rebranded, not re-negotiated.
Some minor changes to favor the dairy industry in Wisconsin and also a Minimum wage increase for Auto Workers in Mexico (I think 12 dollars minimum, which most auto companies were already paying their employees). Beyond that it was basically the same.
Yeah. It's nothing but a marketing ploy. Seems mostly like a name change that Donnie can put his stamp on and point to as his "legacy" once he's out of office.
"The USMCA? That was me. It was all me. Don't say I didn't get nothing done, because I got rid of that nasty NAFTA and put in the much better USMCA."
Kinda like how Trump puts his name on other people's buildings and then acts like he had them built.
All the more reason for Senate Dems to not give them the votes they need then. There's no reason to give Trump the satisfaction of getting to pretend like he did something great.
Agreed. The president* just doing what he does - peddle bullshit over and over and it becomes "truth".
Also, that's not how trade deals even work. It's not like trade deals just mysteriously generate money that another government pays to our government. It has to do with restricting imports/exports and tariffs (which are collected by our government from our citizens, not from Mexico).
Being unable to grasp simple concepts about the
economy world used to be disqualifying for government officials.
Well, he's also saying that the wall is already being built.
So, it's funded, and already being built? What's the problem then, Donnie? Sounds like it's all settled.
Not sure why he needs to keep the Government shutdown if that's the case.
It’s because he needs to make sure the Democrats are good and sorry for being mean to him and saying ‘No’ just because his simple request was irresponsible, unworkable, and unconscionably racist.
Didn't he have 20-25 billion on the table in 2018? But he blew it to fight Daca for no reason other than to fuck with Obama?
Correct. Trump just last year rejected some proposals to offer up to $25 billion in border security funding in exchange for legal protections and a path to citizenship for up to 1.8 million young immigrants.
Wasn't Stephen Miller the guy who supposedly derailed the bill including DACA and got Trump to reject it?
With all of the collateral victims and firings and ousters, I seriously have no idea how Miller has hung on this long.
If it's true that Miller was the one to change Trump's mind on the original bill, then Trump should blame Miller for getting him into this situation. He certainly didn't hesitate to blame Sessions for 'causing' the Mueller investigation.
It sure sounds like something Count Dracumiller would do.
If it involves immigration, you can usually trace it back to Miller. Here's a great article from Politico last year on how Miller has taken over immigration policy in the White House: https://www.politico.com/story/2018/08/29/stephen-miller-immigration-policy-white-house-trump-799199
Yep, and further, hasn't spent over 90% of the funds that were allocated to border security. Just got it and did nothing with it.
It's all about messaging. Always has been. You think Trump actually gives a shit about national security? Please. He'd open the floodgates himself if he thought he could profit off of the flood insurance, to speak metaphorically.
It was 25 billion and yes, he did blew it to fight DACA. I think it was not only to fuck Obama but also because he's a racist asshole.
he did blew it to fight DACA
Exactly as the Dems predicted he would, so they can hold that failure over his head right now.
That's what actual political 3-D chess looks like.
Why didn't he request this money 2 years ago, or last year, when:
Republicans controlled all branches of government and were giving out money for every asinine idea he had.
Illegal boarder crossing were higher 2 years ago, where there is less of an emergency now.
Of course he will, it's his go-to. "If the Dems just agreed to x, then I wouldn't have to y."
Guy's been blaming the Dems for all his failings the same way. Did you know it was the Dems' fault for the ACA repeal not passing? How about how the Dems killed DACA? Same shit, same anus, different bowl.
"See, if they had just met my hostage demands, I wouldn't have had to kill half of them!"
They are already saying this. It's the primary line of drivel coming from the right, even though McConnell has already rejected bipartisan funding proposals because he's a spineless little bitch.
That's the sign that it's not a true national emergency: he didn't do it in his first two years and it isn't something that would be finished beyond his presidency anyway.
Funny how the Democrats taking back the House is what spurred most of this "crisis" on.
more like Trumps Demands.
5.1 billion was to start the construction, the actual cost to finish and maintain was what - 10 times higher ?
I wonder if anyone has factored in the legal costs of having to take and fight for all of that land? No one is giving up that land willingly.
72% of the people living on the American side of the border don't want a wall.
The people in the rest of the country haven't thought about the bloodbath that would happen if the feds rolled up and tried to forcibly take land from the 72% of heavily armed Texans that don't want to give up their land to the feds...
Remember the Bundy standoff about grazing on federal land? Now imagine if it was actually their land instead of federal land... It doesn't end peacefully in that version.
More like 20 times higher, and that's not even including the maintenance. Illegals don't even have to go through the holes they make, vandals just need to punch holes to force us to have to repair them.
The thing is though, Trump doesn't actually want to build anything that would be secure, he just wants the slush fund.
It's not like a real estate mogul would have friends in the construction industry he wants to give fat government contracts to.
What about the land owners that doesn't want this wall. No one is talking about that.
And that would matter if it was just about the cost. It's about what a stupid idea it is, and about the lies that mexico will pay for it.
and preventing setting precedent. If we concede to this, we lose ground on any other boondoggle he tries to get through
Even the path it would open for the next Dem president. We'd be weak to not use the same tactic which will turn the whole system into an endless circus.
No, the bigger problem is that we can't use the same tactic, because Democrats are mostly fully functional adults that want a functional government. This tactic works for them because Republican voters are mostly the opposite of that.
2000 miles of border. Let's put a BP officer on every single mile of that border. 3 shifts per day, and heck, let's give them $100,000/year including benefits, 4 weeks vacation. That requires 4.5 officers per mile of border for 24/7 coverage, let's round it up to 5 officers. And let's spend $30,000 for a shiny new truck every year, for every mile of border.
That's a total of $1.06 billion a year, for the entire border. The cost of just this ridiculous section of wall would fund this level of personnel and equipment for over 5 years.
That has zero to do with this as since he is using the Wall as a political tool and the Republicans had 2 years to fund it, but did nothing the damage being done by Trump is real losses to the country. It harm done by the Republicans because they didn't want to politically try to fund the wall while passing tax cuts.
Add the cost of the shutdown to the cost of the wall and you can see the Republicans only care politically for their party.
No. Not this argument.
We're now paying armed police to guard all of those Confederate statues so that people can't tear them down. Because once the state installs a monument it has to defend the monument in perpetuity. Even if it's evil; in Trump's America, especially because it's evil.
Beyond the construction costs the wall will have legacy costs of payroll, maintenance, a new 'Wall Force' to shoot tear gas in both directions... and the inevitable civil war once an increasingly progressive, ethnic population fights the government to have it torn down.
Fuck this argument and fuck the media when it starts harassing the Democrats in two weeks.
Agree, the idiot that comes up with this argument need to do some research on TCO, total cost of ownership. The initial cost of building it's just a small piece.
Can’t the Space Force guard it with lasers and photon torpedos from their Sky Command lunar base?
Correction: it will surpass the cost to build 75 miles of the 2,000 mile wall.
The problem is, is that he doesn't give a flying fuck. He wants a real estate construction project that him and his buddies can skim off of, and he will break all the White House China before he doesn't get it.
McConnell needs to be shamed every time he steps out of his fucking shell for this madness.
Wait, the 5 billion is only the down payment. I've seen estimates from 23 billion to 50 billion for the finished product
Why doesn't he just get companies to fund it and let them put billboards on the wall? Free market!
He's pushing the wall so much it makes you wonder if he's invested in the companies trying to build the wall and it's just a last ditch effort to get paid before he leaves office
Nope. It will exceed what Trump is tantruming over this budget period, but the cost of the wall to just construct it will easily be over 10x that and ongoing maintenance will be billions a year.
All for something completely ineffective.
Hold firm. $0 for a useless monument to racism and stupidity. The South already is full of those in the form of statues of Confderate "heroes". TRE45ON can jack off at one of those instead of a wall.
Trump went on record on national TV claiming he will take full responsibility for a government shut down. And he should. Americans need to hold him accountable. Trump needs to understand how much his tantrum is COSTING all Americans as he drags on the Trump shut down.
Every single Democratic political ad in 2020 should be the video of him claiming Mexico will pay for the wall, followed by the video of him claiming the shutdown is on him, followed by a video of him blaming democrats.
Lets be real. $5 bil isn't going to make a wall. It will make part of an idea of one under good conditions. Under the current conditions it would just make a few select people or organizations very rich. I want to start a hashtag BOONDOGGLE and TRUMPWALL or something. I mean, if I was on Twitter.
I don't think any of this is actually about building a functional wall, this is 100% Trump shutting down the government and fucking over hundreds of thousands of people just so he can look like he had a victory over Democrats.
We do not negotiate with terrorists.
Seriously that's the point here.
Republicans voted 100% for the current budget on the table. Democrats have voted for and sent plans. Republicans (especially Mitch McConnell) are refusing to do their job because they think he'll veto it. So that means that Republicans have abdicated entirely and are just putting it all on Trump, who is throwing a tantrum.
Democrats have offered a healthy package towards border security, but because it doesn't explicitly contain funding for a ridiculous wall the POTUS has decided to hold the government hostage. The Dems have done literally everything they can. Capitulating at this point would be completely ridiculous.
Are you saying that trump is making bad decisions regarding the economy?
It's almost as though he's completely incompetent and acting in bad faith.
I’d be shocked if it lasted two more weeks. I think Trump would (unfortunately) declare a state of emergency and take money from the DOD to start the wall.
I saw Trump yesterday wearing a MAGA hat. Isn’t America already great again? He’s had two years.
*It will exceed what he's holding the gov hostage for.
"The Wall" will cost at least 30 BILLION DOLLARS
and Mexico was supposed to pay for it.