|Submited on :||Thu, 6th of Dec 2018 - 00:22:20 AM|
|Post ID :||a3ign9|
|Post Name :||t3_a3ign9|
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|Subreddit ID :||t5_2qh33|
I have installed surveillance systems for banks and corporations. Some banks tend to be one the “thrifty” side of surveillance because they are insured and once the robber has left they can contact the police. Also as of 2016 (last time I did a project at a bank, they were still ok with using VHS tapes to record...
Can confirm. Worked for a too big to fail bank. State of the art DVR surveillance recorders were only installed in new branch builds & the main HQ. All the ancillary branches were stuck with 24/72 hour VHS recorders until they would fail...then that unit would be replaced with a networked DVR.
I want this to be a plot point in the next bank heist movie. Instead of finding a l33t hax0r to "hAx into all the bank cameraz" while crawling in airducts, just have the lead robber say "Don't worry about the cameras. They're shit anyway."
Wasn’t so easy to hax the DVR’s. First thing corporate did was remove the default user. You’d also have to be on the internal bank security network, which was separate from the general data network, the VoIP network and the “cash” network.
If you got that far, you’d need access to an authorized terminal or physical access to the DVR to get anything useful out.
The weak point of CCTV access would always be at the camera. Depending on the location & settings of the Pelco controller, an alarm may or may not activate if the image is lost or the field of view is changed outside of a certain time frame.
Common duct tape was used to block cameras by contractors, but wire cutters worked too. :)
But they can still be hax by typing on the keyboard really fast, right? :) /s
My favorite "hacking" scene is in Swordfish, where Hugh Jackman hax the Pentagon while getting blown and had a gun pointed at his head. Slashdot called this scene "what Extreme Programming should be".
I see you take a more laid back approach to hacking as judged by your username
You're on the team. Now we need to find our driver, muscle, hot chic and demolition specialist.
Hell and High Water uses a version of this, the robbers initially target banks where the surveillance cameras aren't working.
Great movie and surprisingly believable for the most part.
Honestly though, there's less room for vulnerabilities with a VHS system. What the fuck are you going to do if you know some camera recorded you to VHS to a system that isn't online, where they can literally go grab a tape and view what happened? No way to "hack in" or any bullshit like that. A simple setup would be an airgapped hack proof system without physical access.
Which banks were these ? You know.. for science.
What does that have to do with boobs?
If he likes to get excited with banks, let him be
Yeah don't kink shame the man
I'm a coffee shop man myself
Flash boobs at shitty cameras, but only do it every 96 hours if the tapes are on a 72 hour cycle. Provide incentive for upgrading to a higher resolution camera and data storage device.
Rob a poorly secured bank and you can buy titties.
I worked for ABN/AMRO before they were bought out by B of A. For fun, I looked up the nearest branches within a 50 mile radius.
Based on the addresses and names of the current branches in the Chicago area, comparing them with ABN/AMRO’s records...at least 50% of the suburban branches are in the same location - and have a high degree of probability of still using VHS recorders with ancient time-lapse tapes. Bank policy was to throw out the VHS tapes after 20 uses, but it’s also very unlikely they ever bother to buy new tapes.
DVR technology would heavily prevalent in the downtown branches, locations near the L, and the ‘hood.
I dealt directly with 7 branches downtown & the old & new bank HQ & data center. All those locations were DVR based at the time of the B of A buyout.
It reminds me of Hell or High Water. The one bank being robbed was transitioning and didn't have their cameras setup to record.
Great movie with a great take on the robbery motiv.
Aren't they really only doing it for insurance compliance, not to actually catch the robbers? Like, they just want to check off a box. Done.
They don't really care who robbed the bank. For insurance purposes, they just need to prove that it was in fact robbed.
Banks tend to be "thrifty"?!? Well ain't that a bitch.
I wish I could be "thrifty" when they charge fees. 😏
I have a feeling many surveillance companies also give banks the shaft when quoting those systems. Just a hunch, but I absolutely would not be surprised.
moral of the story? Never rob a bank on Mars!
Most of us have robbed a bank on mars though. Easy mistake to make.
Higher quality means bigger files. Not great if you're recording 24hrs.
Also better quality camera. You're not going to spend millions in sending a robot to Mars only to put a $50 camera on it.
You would if you're EA.
EA would, but you would have to pay $1/pixel to unlock higher resolution.
more like $10 for a lootbox with a chance of getting "pixel powder" if you're lucky, and you can combine 15 pixel powders into 1 pixel.
oh lawd im having ptsd
Post transaction stress disorder?
You're never too young to have a Vietnam flashback.
You should receive your EA offer letter in 3-5 days. But if you’d like it sooner, it’s only 5 dollars per spin. 3 wins and you get the expedite package perk.
I'm shook at how accurate this is
And then expect thanks as they've allowed you to skip the space-grind that they created with their false galactic-economy that they made and implimented in the first place. And then they'll claim that said grind is justified by providing players a sense of space-pride and cosmic-accomplishment.
Then they'll shut down the subsidiary that made the camera. After all its unusual that a niche product like a space camera surprisingly didn't become the new standard in all photography, despite them adding useful features that worked for other, more popular models of camera.
Then years later they release a new Mars rover for the old line of Mars rovers. It's smaller and less powerful and the camera sucks but a lot of space agencies (and hopefully some aliens) are interested; this is a return to a better time of Mars exploration. Unfortunately these same agencies are flabbergasted to find out its a 'Mars' rover in name only, and infact it's a repackaged Luna rover like your dad used to learn about in the 70s.
"Are there any plans to explore Mars with this rover?" A betrayed and angry Elon Musk asks at the Q&A, his anger clear. "There are no plans to use this rover for a Mars exploration in the near future" replies the sweaty and yet jovial PR guy. Boos and jeers emminate from the space-audience. Even the Ferenghi are saying it's too far. "Do you guys not have Moons?" Jeers and boos only get louder. Vulcans are pissed; everyone knows Vulcan has no moon. Wookiees are laughing; they know that there isn't shit on Mars anyway. Ewoks are getting violent now; they're a primitive society that shouldn't have been invited. Fights break out. Old scores and historical star wars are suddenly brought to the forefront of the mind of every being. Most alien races cut diplomatic ties with Earth (including the federation (things start getting extra awkward for star fleet)) for ruining 300 generations of galactic peace.
The Senate passes a bill recinding all protections Earth had and the Vogan's planned intergalactic highway is finally a reality. Down on Earth Ford Prefect takes Arthur Dent for a pint before hitching a ride on the constructor fleet that destroys Earth...
Fucking EA guys. Seriously. Fuck. Them.
TL;DR: all my favourite sci-fi comes together and it's totally not awesome and that's EA's fault.
This guy EA
Jesus christ you can't talk about money anywhere without "EA bad"
GERALDO G U D .
Cameras are cheap as shit, the storage is what drives up the cost. Some banks might have a few dozen cameras recording 24/7 and they want to keep the footage for a while. Something might not turn up missing for a few weeks after it is stolen so that is a shit ton of video you have stored. Add in RAID backup and it gets quite expensive. That being said, I think the reason they don’t buy more storage so they can record at a higher resolution is because there aren’t too many people robbing a bank with out a mask on. You can still read a license plate number at this resolution though.
Actually most people don't use masks to rob banks, most just pass a note casually. They happen quite often, and arrests are quite rare.
Thought this was just an awesome scene in Out of Sight.
I worked for a bank and would see how often alerts would happen for robberies. I was even robbed myself. We were told explicitly that they aren't reported on the news to avoid copy cat crimes. Most robbers just wear baseball hats not masks. Also the bank is prepared for this to happen, as most teller drawers only have a a thousand or two at most in their top drawer.
You'd be surprised. Cameras that end up on some of these missions are often times as old as or older than the project itself and therefor aren't cutting edge tech. There is a lot of testing involved with every component, not the least of which are these cameras, so you can imagine they aren't anxious to put in the latest and greatest cameras in favor of tried and true.
The age of the camera is much less important than the size or the quality of the lens, and lenses haven't changed much in 50 years.
Size of sensor. As you said, optics hasn't really made any meaningful improvement in decades, near 40 years probably, but the sensors are where things change. Just the size of CCD can make a huge difference.
I work for a major bank and I can assure you the cameras have much better quality than that (unless someone is in the background or something). Whenever you walk into a bank and use the ATM you are recorded from at least 3 different angles.
But you don't need to keep the video long. And storage is cheap af
My 1080P dashcam fits 3 hours of video into a 16GB chip.
If a bank wants to keep 1 month of video at a time (should cover pretty much everything) then they need 730 hours of video, or approximately 243.3x the amount of time.
For that, you need 3,893 GB, or approximately 3.8TB of data.
A 5TB external harddrive costs approximately $100 currently, and assuming that the bank uses 20 video cameras, would cost $2,000 total for 1 month worth of records across all video cameras.
Granted there are a lot of other costs that fit into this but still. $2,000 is chump change for a bank.
The data size would be a lot less since it is mostly a static image. You only need to keep it when there is motion as well.
Hey man, you got any of them $100 5TB drives?
(Seriously. Got a link?)
Standard desktop drives aren't really meant for the constant writing to that CCTV recording does. You'd probably ruin that poor external pretty quickly.
Yup. You have to buy hard drives rated for this kind of use. It’s gonna cost more. Promise.
Are SSDs good for surveillance (given unlimited storage)?
Too much read/write. Magnetic storage is still the champion of that.
That would be even worse. The 2 major cons of a SSD is that writing to the drive degrades it over time, and it's more expensive per GB. Basically the opposite of what you want.
Yeah but not an insane amount.
Multiply that amount by the number of cameras in a bank and then by the more than 8000 branches Wells Fargo has. Adds up VERY quick. Current system are good enough that most robbers get caught and their FDIC insurance pays them back either way. They don't have a huge reason to invest in upgrading things currently.
You're also not writing mission-critical surveillance camera data to single drives; you're writing it to banks of redundant gear and taking backups of that data to an offsite location for additional protection.
A very lightweight commercial surveillance system with about 100 active channels and on the order of 40TB of storage cost us a total of about 200k over the last six years. And that's for one smallish college campus; a bank has far more strict monitoring requirements than we do, far less tolerance for downtime, etc.
I have a 1TB HDD and it stores about 1.5 weeks worth of continuous 1080p footage from 8 cameras.
I wonder how many cameras a bank would need
1 or 2 per teller (one to get the customer's face, another to record the exchange), 2 or 3 per door (inside, outside, usually one inside the height maker bars to try and get a face shot), 3 per atm (one outside, one in the mirror, one inside the room they're in) usually a couple perimeter ones, any in any cash counting area, plus the vault and any waiting and back office areas
Also... my smartphone's free app knows how to just record when there is motion.
Yea the real cost would be having the upgrades installed by a trusted vendor to a system that's very likely some proprietary setup and then the work would then need to be independently audited. The hardware costs would pale in comparison to the service costs.
you can get much better compression on video for long term storage. your dash came can probably store much more efficiently, without losing much clarity with better compression.
for a store/bank there are even more compression options like lower framerate to even 1/3 frames per minute since people don't move at 60 mph.
and the real difference in OPs photo is that the one from a bank was zoomed in 8x while mars is full rez.
I think a lot of it is that technology has progressed to this point in some 20 years, causing all kinds of security systems to rapidly go obsolete.
Banks cant afford more hard drives
Bottom is also pixel quality of 90% of memes on here when reposts
needs more Jpeg
And the steaming quality of some really hot foreign camgirls. Or... so I've heard... from other people. You don't know them.
It’s almost like they have slightly different budgets or something
A bank with a budget? Let’s go with 144p gentlemen. That’s sufficient.
Edit- Thanks for the Silver!
I mean, you can bet they did the math and they've come to the conclusion that further investment doesn't carry enough value to justify the cost. It would be ideal, but the bank doesn't exist to catch bank robbers. They exist to maximize profits.
Getting high quality photos from the surface of mars was likely a signficant goal for the mission itself. So they did the math and knew it was worth it to invest in tech that would allow them to get a high quality camera there.
It's also 1 camera (or a small number of cameras), vs thousands of cameras. And 24 hours of recording, which requires a significant amount of space.
Let me also chime in as a Tech who installs cameras. The Mars Rover is seen from exactly from the Camera's POV. The Bank Camera's POV is zoomed in. Any zoomed in CCTV footage is gonna be pixelated as shit depending on how far away the camera is from what it's filming.
You can have 1080p camera's that capture wide shots, but you're gonna get some shit pictures trying to zoom in on smaller areas of those 1080p shots.
Having varifocal camera's pointed directly at entryways and zoomed in so there are more pixel density on faces would allow more clarity for identification.
Tl;dr the problem isn't the camera. It's the fact that it's a wide-angle camera looking over a large space.
Yup, banks don’t like wasting money until and unless they have to. That is why you see mainframe and really old shit buzzing in banks.
Also why they are less secure against hackers than video game companies.
They don't need to catch the robber, they just need to prove they were robbed. After that insurance takes care of them
You don't make money by spending it. Cutting costs at every turn makes profits.
And as if you lose quality when you zoom in on a fixed resolution image
they should probably place the camera in a better spot if you have to zoom in 100x to see the face. its a bank not a stadium
I don’t think the budget matters so much as the purpose of them, ya know?
We’re spending all this money to get satellites to space, I’d hope that their cameras take pretty good fucking pictures while they’re there lol
But all a security camera does is try to identify basic information about time, means, and culprit of the crime. None of those things really require fine detail except for identifying the culprit, but their appearance is likely not going to be majorly impactful in the investigation.
So it makes sense they’d spend less on the tool if they can, because it’d serve its purpose
Or that one is a video and one is a still.
You can get pretty high def cameras for pretty cheap now though.
Not cheap enough for banks, apparently. Why would they care, they’re FDIC insured.
What an outage!
Also, how many times did the bank get robbed while you worked there?
Statistically, I'm gonna say that number was somewhere between 0-0.1.
I think people probably unconsciously think that banks are robbed regularly (though I'm sure most would realize this isn't true if given critical thought) but most banks never see a robbery ever, so there's likely a lot more pressing issues to tackle.
It's 2018. So why are all the people having Bigfoot and UFO encounters all still shooting with a 2003 Nokia with a VGA camera?
Phones are bad in low light conditions and they don't have optical zoom, if you get to see something weird in the
skin sky you will only get a blurry bright thingy.
I mean... what if Bigfoot IS blurry? There's a big, out of focus monster roaming the countryside. Run! He's fuzzy! Get out of here!
At least things that matter are in 4K (eg. YouTube vids and porn).
Bigfoot is actually pixellated in real life
"Suspect appears to be a racially ambiguous male from a ps1 game. All units be on the lookout for any sketchy looking men walking around in 144p "
Top fucking notch, good sir or madam. I actually laughed out loud.
I worked at a bank for almost 7 years. Can remember getting notifications every few days of another robbery, sometimes being the same robber. Not lying when saying I remember only one or two “they were caught!” notifications. Some of these guys would rob branches all over the area and never got caught.
So why are we even working jobs?
Yeah I'm going to quit in the morning sometime. I just turned off my alarms.
I got robbed when I was a teller manager. The guy that robbed me hit 3 other banks and even had a nickname. He was caught because he left a coffee cup with his fingerprints and DNA on it. Oh, and he robbed the bank that his childhood best friend's mother worked at.
How nice. I never got robbed out right. I did have short change artists and fake check schemes and stuff, but never robbed. I worked at a bank in a grocery store and when I wasn’t working one day, someone robbed us and put a fake bomb at the entrance of the store. The store and bank were both locked in.
Only making the best choices
Shit, I'm in the wrong line of work... where's that ski mask?
Mars footage gets in faster too.
We can get pictures from Mars but I can’t get WiFi in my bed.
What the fuck Verizon.
You'd get pretty good WiFi if you spent $2.5 Billion on it.
That's not true with cable companies and the FCC
Fuck u Verizon. Fuck u in your stupid asses.
You getting WiFi in your bed has absolutely nothing to do with Verizon.
They may have given him his router.
Not only did they give me my router, I called one time because my WiFi wasn’t working and the guy tried telling me not only was it because of the siding on my apartment, but it’s because of the time of the day. “Well it’s that time of day, you know, busses are out.”
I think it's because swamp gas refracted the light from Venus.
jesus christ its Jason Bourne
It's weird to be living in a time where we are casually looking at the Mars landscape.
lol People commenting on surveillance systems like they have any real world experience. “But motion detection!” Mother fucker. You fast forward through 10 hours of complete darkness because the cameras keep changing a random part of the image from black to dark grey and if you increase the threshold anymore, it wouldn’t pick up a dump truck driving through a nitroglycerin plant.
Bank surveillance isn't about catching the bad guy, it's about proving to the insurer that the robbery took place.
One is likely full res, the other is highly zoomed in.
Thank you. Had to scroll this far. Everybody is talking about the quality of the camera and shit. Zoom into an equally small area of the Mars picture and see what it looks like.
And banks even make billions in profits for preying on poor people with endless banking fees.
Take out a 10k loan? 12+% interest!
You have $10k in your account? 0.5% interest banks will pay you.
It is all about risk. Putting 10k on a large and secure pile of money (read bank) is not a big risk, so very little interest. In fact, you may even put your money somewhere that has negative interest. Giving a normal loan to a random dude is pretty risky.
Exactly, interest is correlated to risk. The government even insures that you CANNOT lose any money under 250k in the bank.
preying on poor people with endless banking fees
I agree. We should set up a bank that has thousands of employees, a large ATM network, ultra security on all transactions, a team of lawyers for the regulatory frameworks and governments that continually use us as scapegoats.
Then we'll charge low fees. It will be easy because we'll make billions in profit.
yep. people who have extra money and can save it are going to have it and save it whether you pay them 0.5% or 5% or 10%. so fucking give them 0.5%
poor people, though, that's where all the money is made: https://www.forbes.com/sites/halahtouryalai/2012/04/26/how-banks-are-getting-richer-off-the-poor/#306c6e8a4a38
The quote from the banking analyst gets my riled up... Of course people expect it to be there at a moment's notice! It's their money, that they entrusted to the bank for safe keeping in exchange for the bank's opportunity to make a profit on it. It's their job to return the money upon request, just like it's a 911 operator's job to answer anybody who dials into 911 - no matter how inconvenient it may be for them.
Billion dollar camera, 30 dollar camera. You get what you pay for.
Meanwhile, I can’t smile in a passport photo, because facial recognition and blah blah.
You can walk into casinos in a fucking motorcycle helmet with the face mask, and those fuckers will recognize you and kick you out faster than you ever thought possible.
You’re talking about millions of dollar budget difference..
I wonder what bank surveillance will look like on mars.
It's almost as if NASA spends more money on its camera equipment....
It's almost like a multi millionaire dollar camera / system will provide a better image than a $100 system..
Mars is looking pretty flat to me guys
That's enough proof for me, time to join the Flat Mars Society.
1 cost a couple hundred million while the other cost 50 bucks. most can't afford the former
This post is so dumb lol
Okay but one camera cost literally hundreds of millions of dollars, and the other one was likely not even hundreds of dollars when it was installed 20 years ago... Ridiculous comparison.
It's amazing the advancement of cameras. A cell phone camera the size of a pea has 100x better quality than an old security camera the size of a loaf of bread.
I've worked alot of security jobs, and frankly, thats surveillance quality almost everywhere
Just zoom in and get the license plate.
Just zoom in and run facial recognition.
Just zoom in and ENHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANCE!
Never rob a bank on Mars.